Can Your Podcast Suffer From Story Overload?

David Jackson  0:00  
Ask the podcast coach for February 24 2024 is 2424 Holy cow. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is. It's that music that means it's Saturday. It's time for Ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast questions answered. Live. I'm Dave Jackson from the School of podcasting.com. And joining me right over there is the one and only Jim Collison from the average guy.tv. Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Jim Collison  0:29  
Greetings, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. Good to be back. Big thanks to rob Greenlee who filled in for me last week. Always great to have him around. And Rob, thanks for filling in for me. Appreciate it.

David Jackson  0:40  
Yeah, he was nice enough to have me on his show a couple of weeks back. It's like Rob greenlees podcasting tips with friends or something of that nature that he does on YouTube. And so when I heard you're gonna be out, I was like, You know what, Rob's a good guy. Let's bring on he's kind

Jim Collison  0:55  
of everywhere right now.

David Jackson  0:56  
Right? He is kind of,

Jim Collison  0:57  
isn't he in a lot of spaces. Yeah,

David Jackson  0:59  
he's in. Well, that's the thing, just talking about what he's up to. Like, there was 90 minutes like, okay, he's the stream yard. He's working with some little box that records everything and removes the noise. I forget the name of it. But

Jim Collison  1:12  
He's launching rockets to Mars. That's it. Yeah. He's doing everything these days that Rob Greenlee

David Jackson  1:20  
but now it was, it was great having him Oh, he's great hanging out with him. He's been around forever. He was around before podcasting was podcasting. So it's always interesting for you know, g of

Jim Collison  1:29  
the OG Yeah, he'll

David Jackson  1:30  
he'll start off with some sort of like, oh, well, that was back when, you know, Microsoft had a thing called, you know, and we actually said the phrase Palm Pilot, I think last week and it'd

Jim Collison  1:41  
be mentioned Zune, that Zune. Probably, yeah. So yeah, yeah,

David Jackson  1:45  
he's crazy. But on this new theme, it is cold here. I don't know what it's doing in Nebraska. It's,

Jim Collison  1:50  
it's a little chilly, and I'm a little thirsty. And that coffee pour,

David Jackson  1:54  
of course, is brought to you by our good friends over at podcast branding.co If you need to look good. In fact, right now, as we speak, Mark is working on a new piece of artwork for me for your podcast website, a podcast coming in the future. And I will add that to ask the podcast coach, and the School of podcasting in the podcast rodeo stuff that he's done for me, of course, if you're like, Well, I don't just need artwork, I need a whole website. Well, he can do that. Anything that you want to look good. Mark is the guy you want to call. And what's beautiful is we did our call where we got online and marks kind of like, what's the idea of the show, you really want to make sure that the artwork was aligned with what I was trying to do. And so if you really want something to look great and make a great first impression, because you know, they see you before they hear you. There's really only one place to go. And of course that is podcast. branding.co and be sure to tell him that you heard about him on the Ask the podcast show.

Jim Collison  3:06  
Of course, big thanks to our good friend Dan lafeber Over there based on a true story based on a true story. podcast.com This week on based on a true story podcast letters to Iwo Jima on I'm sorry, Letters from Iwo Jima. Malcolm X flags are a Father's Day and always does a bang up job over there if you need maybe like you took last week off. I was traveling and I listened to a bunch of podcasts. Maybe you're out you need something new. Check it out today based on a true story. podcast.com. Dan, thanks for your sponsorship. And yes, I have a I have a cold this week. So I'm sounding a little I got the deep voice. I got the deep voice going on here. It is. Yeah, I should record some voiceover with these kind of traffic because you can in a world because you can just you can really, you can really nail the bass. But seems to be this this this cold seems to be going around the country. I'm hearing a lot of people talking about it. So hopefully we'll be through it soon. Sorry for the the voice that

David Jackson  4:02  
you don't, I think it's one of those cases where you think you sound worse than you do. You can kind of tell the ever a cold. But Chris Nessie has a question where to get to in a second, I want to ask this question. Does podcasting suffer from what I call AC DC syndrome, and I'll give you an example. I'm going to be on somebody's show and I'm happy to be on somebody's show. But I'm starting to get triggered by the phrase, your story. And so I was listening to his show because they're like, Oh, we're gonna have you talked about podcast monetization and blah, blah, blah. And we'll talk about your story. And I was kinda like, okay, but I listened to his show this week on the podcast, radio show. Really nice person, great audio, but it was kind of like, hey, dreamers, you know how to get it out there and do your thing and make your brand it was all about your personal brand, which made me think of that if you've never seen the South Park version episode on my personal brand. It had a lot and then maybe that was it. Maybe was getting triggered by South Park. But it just seems like a everybody had a hard childhood. Even if you had the world's best childhood to you is like, well, you know, one day I had to drink 2% Milk instead of whole milk. Oh, it was dreadful. Right, but right, we all think we had it, but so am I okay, good. Congratulations, you had a hard life. I'm not sure that requires me to give you money. Because it seems to be that if I just tell you my story, then somehow you will give me money. But I get it. Now. On one hand, you know a bit I got story worthy, right behind me. I'm a big fan of stories. I'm just not sure. Like, I'll give you an example. People keep burying the lede. There's a new show that I can't remember. But they listen to audio advertisements. And then they go was that good or bad? Or you know, and they some really good stuff if you're thinking of making a promo for your show, and I'll put a link to it in the show notes. Do I have it? Let me see. We are going to talk about a new app I found and it's it was pretty interesting. And but it just the fact that it just seems like the formula now is get a guest talk about their story. Ad owl boy, it's a fun word. Ad infinitum is the name of the show. So

Jim Collison  6:14  
is that is that what Captain America's shield is made? I

David Jackson  6:16  
think it is. Yeah, infinitum. Yes. And but what was interesting is I hear they listen to radio ads, and then give their opinion about it. So when I tuned in, Jim, what do you think I expected to hear?

Jim Collison  6:29  
Maybe them talking about ads and what they think of them, you

David Jackson  6:33  
would think except I had to hear about, you guessed it, the guest story. And I was kinda like, I'm kind of, I'm storing, like your story, not a story. But your story. I don't really need to know, this guy's like he could have said he's the author of the book, blah, blah, blah, welcome to the show, then listen to the five clips. And then tell me your story. Now that you've given me your opinion, or you can drop all sorts of stuff. Well, when I was working with, you know, Baskin Robbins, or whatever, you know, you can kind of throw in your street cred there. I don't know, is it just me? Or are? Are we kind of getting lost in telling people's stories?

Jim Collison  7:10  
Now, it might it may be a little bit of both. Because you've been doing this a long time, you're in the meta of this. Right? You help you listen to a lot of different podcasts, because you're helping coach people on this. And you've been in the space a long time. And I think there's this natural cycling that goes where, you know, you learn something new, you get really interested in it, you go deep in it, it gets old and boring. And then you find something else new. I think we're probably in a lot of this than I know a lot of folks in our chat room that listen, live and maybe even listen to the podcast version of this. I've been doing this a while. And some of those I think after a while you start if you're not careful, you start kind of, you know, get off my lawn, Kenny come up with something new. In some regards. We do need to keep you know, we do need to keep reinventing ourselves in this because to your point member when everything was on fire. Oh, geez. Right now. Everybody's trying to be Joe Rogan, a popular format pops up and then everybody copies at true crime. Oh my God, that you know, and it stood out was, it is it is and I've listened to some of those and they're not good for me. They're not good. Like I just get I can't I can't listen to this anymore. But that's I think a lot of that stuff is cyclical. And and then, to your point, I just want to encourage people be come up with something that's original for you. Don't try to copy. You're not trying to copy somebody else. Now. Listen, when I started doing home gadget geeks, I just ripped off Leo Laporte. That's what I did. I liked what he did. I liked his style. I just copied it. And that's what got me going. So, you know, is the am I being a hypocrite, a hypocrite, probably in this, but we do this. This is kind of cyclical. Dave, I think if you took a break from podcasting and walked away from it for five years, and then came back to it, you come back to it with a different set of eyes that you have. You're in the you're in the firefight. You're in the middle of it right now. And we all are right. That's and so it, but it is I think it is cyclical. Yeah,

David Jackson  9:13  
it's well, and the other thing is, you know, you are inspired by Leo's Leo Laporte, but I'm sure maybe Leo isn't going to talk about, you know, robotic lawnmowers. Yeah, you don't I mean, they're things you're talking that's kind of like Daniel J. Lewis got into podcasts about podcasting because nobody was talking about what he wanted to talk about. So it's kind of that but it's different. So

Jim Collison  9:35  
yeah, and listen, this week in tech or Windows weekly from you know that Leo does it that those shows are very, very different than anything I've ever done. I was inspired by him. I built structures around what he did. Now in you know, we just this week last week, I took the week off this week, but last week we did 600 or 600 episode, and you go, Well, you change after 600 You know Oh, now it's different. And some of it's still the same, which is kind of funny, you know, but doing the same thing for 600 episodes in some regards, different things after 600 and others. So, yeah, yeah,

David Jackson  10:12  
Dr says I'm at the point where I'm thinking the listener, if they want the story, check out the show notes. Let's just get to the meat of the interview. Now.

Jim Collison  10:20  
They don't go to the show notes. Nobody's going to show notes. If I'm going to tell

David Jackson  10:23  
somebody story. It's after they've given me the meat and potatoes, because now I'm gonna care about their story. In the meantime, it's just like, Hey, welcome to the stage, a stranger you've never heard of. But they have a book. So let's find out why they named their dog tippy. And they were, you know, second in, you know, HOMAG get their elementary school. I'm like, I don't care about their story. Just tell me how to grow my audience or whatever the heck I'm trying to do. And so I don't know that maybe I'm, well, maybe it does. Maybe it's nap purpose.

Jim Collison  10:51  
It's very possible. It's very fun. So it's been a long week. Well, but it's it's also what do you go into the podcast for right? You know, Todd, the gator is talking about? He disagrees? Yes. As you know, he's got stories in his podcast. I don't I don't think you're saying you shouldn't do you shouldn't do that. I think it's maybe a little bit of a commentary of for you. You're looking for more information, maybe and less stories from people. Yeah. The other thing I heard you say in that Dave is the copycat mentality where we all start using the same words all the time, you know, back to the ON FIRE thing or, you know, let's let's energize this podcast. You know what, and that's I just made

David Jackson  11:34  
well, when I heard dreamers, I was like, really using that thing. And then I said, I've never got on board the zone of genius. When I heard that I'm like, come on now. I don't know. I just need to spend more time in my zone of genius. And I was like, okay, is that what we're doing? Now? The zone of genius. I mean, I get the point, but it's like, do we need a catchphrase for it? Yeah, man, you need to, you know, buckle down and spend outside Alright, zone of genius. First of all, genius. Really? Genius. Okay. Oh, my God. I don't know. So man,

Jim Collison  12:05  
you are grumpy this morning? Holy moly. Kinda like this grumpy day.

David Jackson  12:11  
That's pretty good. See, Jeff has a good one. He says I like digging deep finding out some unknown store to ask the guests like why Dave won't teach people guitar. Right. So that would be something. And that's a weird one. I love to teach everything. Just please don't make me teach guitar. And I think why, in the same way, that when somebody starts a podcast, I had someone that Libsyn yesterday, they were on episode eight, and they want to know how to monetize. And I'm like, I think I think you're a little bit ahead of schedule here on the monetization talk. Because you, you know, you're getting 47 downloads, you know, am I That's good. That's two full classrooms. But monetization may not be on the table yet. And it's very much the same thing with podcasting. Nobody walks in goes, Okay, so how do I play eruption by Eddie Van Halen. And I'm like, maybe we should learn the names of the strings first. You know, let's learn how to tune the guitar first. So maybe that's it? I don't know. But yes, SP said out, he wants to be in the zone of jeans as true, especially some good fitting ones. That would be great. Lately, my

Jim Collison  13:10  
job and getting bigger and bigger jeans. I need to work on that. That's Oh,

David Jackson  13:13  
well, I'm with you on that. And the Tod the gator says I think the better thing is to bring out better stories from your guests. With not so much cookie cutter. Maybe that's it? Yeah. Or this thing called editing, where you edit out the boring parts that, you know, don't really, you know, and it is kind of interesting, because Marc Maron does that right? His first question is, so what's your dad do? Right? He always starts with the parents. And how did that lead to you getting messed up? And you know, now we're into the story of how did you become an actor or comedian or whatever the heck the person is? You know, and I guess that's i Maybe that's it. Maybe I'm I think maybe because it's like the curse of knowledge. Because I'm sitting here listening and I'm not listening. I'm going oh, here we go. They're going to do the hero's journey. Yep. Here it is. Let me guess. Is that the hurdle? Oh, my gosh, and how are you going to overcome it? So I may be I think that's it is that I am not listening through the ears of a listener. I'm critiquing it. That might actually be it because I'm just like, oh, let me guess. And then you overcame it. Oh, here it is. There. Okay. There's number four. Now, number five. What lesson did you learn here it comes up there it is. And so I tend to go, but on the other hand, that that is the recipe of a good story. I just listened to David Hooper. And he brought up that Humpty Dumpty is a great story. You know, Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Great. Humpty Dumpty had a big fall. Oh, holy cow. What's going to happen next, right. That's the whole thing. What's going to happen next, you know, and then All the king's horses and all the king's men like, Oh, are they going to be able to do it? Nope, couldn't put him back together again, like, alright, but that's a story, right? Here's what's going on. Something happened. Oh my gosh, what are we going to do what's going to happen and Then you have the climax of sorry, it's a big eggshell somewhere. And here's the other thing. Humpty Dumpty. Why is Humpty Dumpty? I guess because he's an egg. And if he fell, he'd break. But I just, ya know, we're in the actual words, as I say, Humpty Dumpty, the egg sat on a wall. It was I guess, back in the days when kids would read a children's book you would see it as a as an egg. But it just looked at the

Jim Collison  15:22  
story says All the king's horses and all the king's men, what are the horses doing? No wonder they couldn't put that drying back together. I mean, the hooves were in the way, like what got in the manner. Like get out. The story doesn't end there. By the way, the king's men get fired and they bring in contractors. That's to fix it. Yeah, they bring in consultants. They vary and they fix Humpty Dumpty. That's the end of the story. And it was a million dollars. Yeah.

David Jackson  15:49  
over budget. Yeah. If Tim says if the episode can't exist without the story, and the story is relevant to the topic, good deal. Otherwise, for me, I don't need it. That's a great point. If how you got to where you are, is important to understanding how you got there. I agree with that. But I really think I've just hit I through our therapy this morning. I think I've come to the conclusion is I'm critical I need instead of

Jim Collison  16:14  
I feel like I need a pipe. And I feel like you're in therapy with me. So Dave, tell me yes. What What were you thinking when you?

David Jackson  16:25  
I didn't get enough hugs as a kid, man.

Jim Collison  16:28  
Tell me about your dad. Tell me about your dad. Yeah, let's let's get started with that. Why are you ranting Tell me about your dad?

David Jackson  16:35  
Yeah, that's it. The whole the chat room is having their own show today, which is kind of fun. While they're

Jim Collison  16:40  
talking. They're adding Humpty Dumpty, which is randomly good. Randy

David Jackson  16:44  
Fox, this is a name out of my past. Back in the day, when I was a computer trainer, Randy was my other trainer. So he was teaching in one class and I was in the other. And I was I it was funny, because he just showed up on Facebook. And I had somebody this week. And this is completely normal. If you didn't grow up with computers, and now you're trying to get into them, let's say you're I don't know, 70. You need to learn even if you're not 70, you need to learn file management. You should have a folder called podcasts where you save, you guessed it, your podcasts. And then in that folder, have a name. So like Jim might have one for home gadget geeks. And then what's do you do another show called The Kota?

Jim Collison  17:29  
Alright. Yeah, right. Yeah. Called to coach would be a good one. Yeah. So he's

David Jackson  17:33  
got two folders in there, one for home gadget geeks, one for called the coach. Then you go into the home gadget geeks folder, you have episodes. And then you have finished folders, and then maybe a production folder. And if you want it to images, but really you have those but that way when you go into the episodes folder, now there's another folder called 001. And I'm just here to tell you that that sounds like I'm making a lot of folders for what? So that eight months from now, when you go oh wait, where the heck is that? I know I did I use this file on episode 27. You can go to podcasts, home gadget geeks, episodes 27. And there's the file you're looking for. So if you if you're if you don't know that if I just went over your head, joined the school of podcasting, there's a course there's a little lesson on file management. And Randy and I were always amazed because we're teaching computers like we're teaching Word and Excel. And we would always have to do 20 minutes on file management because everybody had my documents back on PCs, right? They still have that everybody would just save everything in that one folder. So it's like having a filing cabinet with one folder in it called My Documents and then like I don't understand why can't find anything, because you have one folder with 8 million things in it. So that's well yeah,

Jim Collison  18:51  
I also recommend you before you start one production you clean up the last All right, so cuz like by the time you get to the end of producing a podcast you're just so glad that thing is out when you're done you could go do something else you don't the last thing you're thinking about is yeah, maybe I should organize my files now. Now that's not the first thought you have done with your plans. So add it to your routine and then before you start a new production first thing you got to do is clean up the old one so go in grab the files, you know there's probably there's many different file philosophies or file strategies as there are people in the chat room I know it's 30 out there 31 out there now, we probably all have different ways the key is to have one have a strategy think through like you mentioned you know starting the top level being the show name and then below the show name would be episode and below the episode. You can also thought it was giving you a thumbs up there you could also go you know, organize them by the file type. So is this the live unedited Is this the edited is this you know in depending upon what you're doing, you might have some people have multiple clips, they don't just, you know, we make one and then edit it. A lot of people bring stuff in, you might need an area for for those kinds of clips. So the best way to organize is the way that works for you. That's

David Jackson  20:15  
it. Yeah. Because some people, because back in the day, people would just have a really long file name. It'd be like, February summary of the widget report for John. And I'm like, Yeah, you could, you could do that with folders and save yourself a whole lot of problems. So Jeff C says, notion has been a lifesaver for me. Yeah, that's one of the things like I I've been using Evernote for years. And I just started using Apple notes. And Apple notes I love because their search is really good. Like the other day, I was like, I know I put this in Apple notes somewhere. And I've got again, folders, but I just have one kind of like ad just put it here folder, and I was able to do a quick search. And that's exactly what I was looking for. Coach Dave says I have a set of folders for every episode creative sound file supporting research than an entirely different topline folder for finished episodes. I need one The reason the school of podcasting folders a mess, is I have podcast stuff, and I have website stuff. And I need to make a folder for website stuff and just take all this stuff that doesn't exist and put it in there because you open it up and you're like, Oh, this is 18 years of disorganization. It's kind of crazy. So, but

Jim Collison  21:26  
yeah, you know, you're totally right. And separating those SP also mentions in the chat, like, you know, the, you get another level of organization with a file name, right, you can add additional things to the file. Now, be careful. If you make it too cryptic years from now, you're not going to know at those, you know, like, oh, yeah, I had all these letters and symbols. And you know, this meant this and remember your, you know, remember your nomenclature, because you'll to come back to you like, what did I mean by G? 796452? You know, what, what's that?

David Jackson  21:59  
Yeah, so mine is always like some sort of like SOP like this show is probably at PC, which is asked the podcast coach, and then the episode number. So I think today is whatever and then underscore, you know, and then the date, and the date comes in handy if you ever have to match an episode with your website, because in theory, the publish date on the website is the same as the the date on the file. I've only had to do that once. But I was so happy that I had the date in the file. So yeah. And then Todd says, Can we also agree that podcasters need a lot of storage for video? Yeah, that's, that's a whole list.

Jim Collison  22:38  
And that's a problem that's been solved. Like we don't that years ago, you know, 1012 years ago, when you and I were first started doing this hard drive, even local hard drive storage space was expensive. And you could you know, you were recreating these video files that were giant, and the storage was small. Today, you know, a 12 terabyte 16 terabyte hard drive. Like it's 150 bucks, maybe 200 bucks, they're cheap. So the in the video, the videos haven't changed that much. Now, if you're storing them in 4k, okay, yeah, they've gotten gigantic for you. But But the hardware has definitely caught up to the storage needs. The What hasn't caught up, though, is bandwidth at times. So people are still on fairly slow bandwidth and they're trying to move these big files to the cloud, you know, for storage. So that's a challenge. I think for some people, you know, getting to get into the cloud.

David Jackson  23:33  
Yeah, I know I'd mentioned Evernote Gary brought up that you can easily import Evernote into Apple notes if you want to. And then Jeff being the notion guy. Yeah, you can easily and it looks just like Evernote when you import it into notion notion is one of those things that it will do your laundry, and I think walk the dog for you. And I'm like, wow, there's a bit of a learning curve but just as much as there is an Evernote I know a lot of people don't like Evernote anymore. I'm not a power user. I just have folders with notes and that it still does well but it they kind of tried to do a little bit of everything where like now you can do your calendar and Evernote and you can do them now you can do you know and I'm like yeah, I don't I don't need it to do that. So they kind of lost some of that. I think they changed their pricing. But I know a lot of people that Gary says notion is cool. Yeah, so there's there's a bunch of those out there. The bottom line is kind of like what you said find what works for you. And we're gonna run a little short today, Jim, it's a birthday party right? Yeah, my granddaughter's. See, that's hashtag fan

Jim Collison  24:36  
warriors. Oh, you got to do is four year old there'll be cake and m&ms and all kinds of hot dogs.

David Jackson  24:45  
That's excellent. So what we're gonna do is we're going to need to backup Wait a minute hold on, I'm hitting the wrong thing not now. I hit the run scene button or so I thought I did. And it's that's interesting video not in file, huh? Well, yeah, yeah, it's looking at speaking

Jim Collison  25:04  
of file storage. Yeah. What Listen, while you're figuring that out, let me let me say, Watch. Watch Dave as he's figuring this out. One of the drawbacks. I think you're running right now through a teleprompter. And you've, you've brought up a new screen on your teleprompter, which is chess turns you blue and that. And I really do think that's one of the drawbacks to using teleprompters. Well,

David Jackson  25:27  
yeah, in fact, if I do just to show you and I haven't figured this out yet, but this is me on the teleprompter, right, kind of typical Dave pasty white, right? If I drag me over here, now I'm Trump. I'm kind of orange. I don't know what's going on with my teleprompter. That turns me white, but I haven't figured it it's been on the list of things to figure out for a while. Color setting.

Jim Collison  25:48  
Yeah, I don't. I don't know if I don't know if I'm sold on teleprompters yet. I mean, obviously, because I just trashed it. But that's one of those things, you know, we're seeing these new cameras, that guy have an arm that come down to put it in front of the, you know, to kind of put it in front or they have the Plexiglas slider, things that you can put the camera on and bring it down. I actually think we're gonna solve this via software here pretty quick. And you're gonna be able to, they

David Jackson  26:14  
might have this my blurry background is courtesy of, you know, Macintosh, you know, there's shutting down your camera. So, yeah, the one thing that's different is, I have I got myself a wearable for my birthday, because people are like, what do you buy yourself for your birthday? And I'm like, do I buy myself something for my birthday? So I bought a wearable and I put it up, it's in the ceiling. And so now are my lights. So my lights are no longer clamped to my desk, which is kind of interesting, because they're actually pointed at my backdrop. And I'm just, I'm bathing in the glow of that. So it's kind of neat. So but yeah, here's what's one of the things you want to do is if you're cleaning up your files, make sure one of them is not used by Ecamm live so that when you go live, it looks for that PDF, and you go, Oh, yeah, I deleted it. So we do want to thank our awesome supporters. If you go over to ask the podcast coach.com/awesome You can see all those lovely people there and you can become an awesome supporter. We're also brought to you by the School of podcasting. So if you want to start or even grow your show, we do that as well. And it's an amazing community over there. We just had two job recruiter recruiters join. So now we've got job recruiters. We've got a psychologist, we got a couple of retired pastors, a comedy writer, a marketing dude, all sorts of fun people. And of course, all the courses are there. And if you go to bass the net if you go to school of podcasting.com/coach, you can save on either a monthly or yearly subscription. And you know if you want more Jim Collison and who doesn't. We'll just go over to yeah, here he is. Look at all the gym right there. Wait, that's the wrong button. It says a little too close. Yeah, it's I don't know why I'm here. But you know, Jim Collison, the average guy.tv is wow. Okay, I honest to god, I played with E cam this morning. So this wouldn't happen. So much fun. But that's why you always want to push all the buttons. And this podcast runs on pod page. If you want to try pod page, go to tripod page.com. And we also are using ECAM live. And when you understand how it works, it's actually a beautiful piece of software. Just don't delete your files before you go live. And you can find that at support this show.com/ie Cam. But with that, it's now time and I'm almost afraid to hit the button here. Hopefully we have Yes, the wheel names. That's it. And so we you know, there are people here like Max from aviation News Talk. We've got Glenn over the horse Radio Network, ask Ralph and ask Ralph podcast Ross brand, all these fun field people. So just to make sure it's not fixed. We'll click on shuffle. And we'll click on shuffle again. There we go. And now if I actually spin the wheel of names, who will be the featured supporter of the week, and it's going round and round? Ooh, could it be it's Oh, I thought it was gonna be Shane over at Radio GDPR. But it's the lovely ladies that keep the flame alive. If you go to keep the flame alive. pod.com If you're in what, you know, this is perfect, because I don't know when I keep seeing commercials for the Olympics. And that's what they cover. So I keep seeing all these bizarre. I'm going up. Yeah, Paris, in Paris. So that'll be fun. So you can be an awesome supportive by going to ask the podcast coach.com/support. So thanks to everyone who is supporting the show. And we deeply appreciate it. And I promise I will find the PDF and have it ready for next. Yes.

Jim Collison  29:35  
Can I Can I jump in? You do? Yes. You know, as you're in this, I want to make this topic really quick as well. And maybe we can. This week I got the opportunity to we did six podcast episodes during the week. So recorded nine in the morning Central Time. 8pm Central time they were Live episodes that we recorded. We'll make them available after the fact they're basically podcast episodes and I had a producer is the for this. So we had enough things going on that Gallup provided a person to just help me. On the backside do all the production make sure the tech worked. Like in for the I've done this 10 years in a row this program I've done 10 years in a row, the 10th year, for nine years, I produced it for the most part. Well, last year, I had some help. But this year was full time producer, Dave, that game changing game changer. Like having especially when we go live here, as you're going through that I just remember, I was remembering as having flashbacks of you know, when you're trying to host produce, you know, cleaning the floors, when you're doing everything. It's really hard like it is it's way harder than most people think. And so having a producer was super helpful. And that may be one of those areas for folks like Ezekiel to kind of think about what you're doing. Getting some and it doesn't have to be a producer to help with it. But getting some help in the in the production of it or whatever it is. Don't Don't try to carry these things alone friends, like if you've got the opportunity to have somebody else help you or should, you know, shed some of the responsibility onto a co host not saying that I want to take on more responsibility. That's not this is not a speech to tell you I want more responsibility. Well,

David Jackson  31:12  
we have 32 producers, I think right now Oh, for sure. In the chapter Oh, yeah.

Jim Collison  31:18  
Yes. And no, they're super helpful. Like when things go wrong. They tell us that's super helpful, right to have the clue. You know, we, one of the episodes, we the last one recorded on Thursday night, the link got Ra was placed wrong in it. And so nobody was there. So we started and we're live blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, talking away and all of a sudden, I start getting Facebook messengers, like, hey, we can't get in, we can't get in. We're lost the LinkedIn work, you know, the people who were trying to access this, this episode we were recording. So that is helpful to have that kind of feedback. i i At that point, I could see what I did know is behind the scenes, the producer knew and was frantically working to get the link fixed, right. So I didn't even know I could I could just continue on. We ended up resetting and going back to the beginning because we wanted everybody to participate in the whole thing. But it does. So yeah, having a chat. But sometimes the chatroom can be distracting we, we have to warn, we have to warn guests who have come on who haven't done this before. And say don't don't watch the chat. Like just don't all all bringing in what's appropriate for you. So we have to kind of warn them to do that as well. But if you're doing live, I mean, I have Listen, I have fun. I kind of think our style, like our style of live where we show some things that you know, show what it's like to try to do it all that way. I like that style. But man, was it great having a producer when I felt big time?

David Jackson  32:46  
Yeah, when I do when I do a Lipson webinar. That's a whole different story. Because it's Yeah, and I have people in the chat room. And they're kind of doing what I'm doing, where I'm starring questions that so when when I'm like I stopped but every 10 minutes to see if there any questions, and I just click on a tab. And if there are questions, they're there. And if they're not, I don't have to go searching through the chat. And Jeff, let me know. And I, you know, I know this, I should have done it. Once you get your E cam set up, you can export your settings and then back them up. I'm not sure that would fix my, my file that I deleted on my it was basically looking at a file on Dropbox. And I was like, oh, yeah, you cleaned up Dropbox this weekend. So shame on me. But there was a question that Chris asked a while ago. He says I have a question. What are some of the strategies to encourage podcasters to add podcasting 2.0 features to their shows, best resources for educating others go to future of podcasting.net and there's a video right at the top that shows you how you can set your show up to receive streaming Bitcoin. My thing what I did, if you go to podcast consultant.com I don't think I put the math in the which would be bad. But I did a thing because somebody sent me a boost that said, Great show guys. And they sent us I believe 10,000 SATs, which was like $2.36 Because half of that goes to Daniel. And I was like, Okay, if I could get 3% Right, I'm not going for 50% Let's be realistic, if I could get 3% of my audience to do that. And then I looked at what people the programmatic ads are paying on a good day point 004 cents a download, right? Because you're making if it's like Hi, this is the programmatic This is the guy codes and the Home Depot's and things like that. And I was like you actually could make more money if you had a kind of techie audience, right? And they were willing to switch apps so there's a lot of big ifs there. You could get you know as an income stream, you I did not put I put all the links but I did not put the math bummer. And I see I have a Valentine's Day ad on my podcast consultant site. That's just a little Olden. Then the tooth at this point. So, and then some people are, you know, I want to make money. Okay, well, what you need to do is sign up for, I don't know, tidy cow, so you can sell coaching and I agree what do you mean? Sounds like hassle, like you got to you know it money is just not going to fall from heaven. But the it's, you know if somebody doesn't want to do it or I get a lot of people and I get this when they go, Yeah, my audience isn't really into Bitcoin, then I'm like, Well, okay, but are they going to be in five years? Are they going to be in 10 years? I'd right now. I'm looking for a replacement for Google podcasts, right? Because that's going away. And I want to find an app that does I want chapters, I want smart playlists. I want it to skip silence, and maybe adjust the volume. And then I want it to stream Bitcoin, even though a very, very, very small percentage of people will use that feature. I want it there. So in five years, I can still be telling people go to, and I found this really great app, look how pretty this is. Let me share my screen. It's called pod you Rama. And it's got an android version. It's got a, what do you call it iOS version. And this is the web based version. And it's got one of the coolest features ever. And I don't know why other bookmarks. So if I click on this, I can actually when you hear something, you know, like, Oh, I gotta remember to talk about this in my show. I can make a bookmark. And this is you can't hear this, because oh, wait a minute, I'll go over here because it's on every machine. This is Adam curry, talking about podcasting, and people doing it for fun.

Speaker 1  36:43  
And I have a question, why is there this and maybe it's just the podcast industrial complex, which I loved is one of the most singularly unhelpful terms in my vocabulary. This growing your podcast. You know, I'm a little sick of the term. Because the whole world seems to be about growing your podcast. And you have to have X amount of downloads, see people are getting triggered to people or grow their tennis game or their golf game, or just have fun playing golf.

David Jackson  37:20  
So I was like, that's a good point. But what's cool is I could go to my phone right now, and pick up right where that left off. But here's the thing, it does everything I want. And normally, I'd be like, Alright, everybody who's using Google podcast, go to pod you Rama. There is a paid version, you can buy like a lifetime version of this for like 50 bucks. And I was like done, except it doesn't do the streaming Satoshi thing I was like, and I asked him about it like any, any podcasting 2.0 stuff, they're like, Oh, we're gonna look into transcripts and some other stuff. And I'm like, value for value. And they're kind of like, we're looking into it. And oh, my God, that's the polite word of maybe, but probably not. So I've yet to find podcast gurus and other great app that does the Satoshi thing. They don't do the smart playlist. So I cannot find my perfect show. But I don't know, Jim, you play in Bitcoin? What? What are your thoughts on trying to get people into it? You know,

Jim Collison  38:15  
this, this is the one this is the one spot on podcasting, you know, 2.0 thing that I really struggle with? Because it wasn't, it wasn't smart to tie it to Bitcoin. And that's just I listen, I know, I know why. And I know what, I just don't agree with it. And I think it's gonna come back to bite us. That being said, you know, providing value for value is is a concept we need. We just we need easy, convenient ways to do it. I don't know if that's the most easy and convenient way.

David Jackson  38:48  
Boy, it's getting easier. But it's definitely not easy. Even just getting your money. Like let's say somebody gives you some Satoshis. And you're like, and if you're new to this whole thing of Satoshi is a very, very, very small amount of bitcoin very much the same way a penny is a small amount of $1. And so if somebody gives you some, like, how do we get it out of my online wallet into my bank is not the easiest thing, especially if you're not in the US. So it's it's easier than it used to be. And there are things like the Cash App and PayPal and a couple other major players have started using Bitcoin, but it's I wish it was further along than it is especially on that side. Because that seems to be the thing that makes everybody go oh, wait a minute, I can make money with this. And you'd like Yeah, I think I I looked at my stats. I think I've made $70 so far with that. And then that's over like a year and a half. But I just love the fact that I can go into my wallet and go but that again, I've got to go into my strike app, which is tied to my bank, and I go here's my 20 bucks, and then I have to copy that into Alby which then does that I think you can now fill your Alby wallet directly with your credit card or something like that. So that's getting easier err, but it's still not. I call it on the future of podcasting, I talk and I say this with love and respect. It's not aunt Cheryl proof, because my brother has a lovely woman named aunt Cheryl. That's on his his in laws. And she's you know, I don't know, older, right? And it's not aunt Cheryl proof. And I'm like when his aunt Cheryl proof. Jay Leno used to say that when he made his jokes, he was like, as you know, he had these two older people watching the tonight show like, are they going to get it, because if they're not, then mainstream media isn't going to get mainstream audiences, I guess, aren't ready for it. So it's still pretty cutting edge. And all the nerds are loving it, I get it, they're doing some really cool things over there, where, especially with music, where if you play music and a show, and this is obviously music, that you have the rights to play, you can have it. So like, when you talk about, hey, coming up, it's the you know, it's the screaming couches coming up on the, you know, podcast group show? Well, when you start talking and play the song, it'll actually give all the streaming Bitcoin coming to you to the band. And then the band can say, Alright, give 25% to this guy 25. To that 25 to that 25. That's kind of cool. But Craig from live well and flourish. And as well as the AI goes to college, if you're into AI, you might want to check that out AI goes to college.com. He was saying it does kind of sound like a bunch of the nerds going wouldn't be cool if it did this. And then they make it do that. And they go, Oh, that's cool. But it's only the nerds that are kind of getting into it. But so was podcasting back in 2004? Well,

Jim Collison  41:32  
I mean, remember hand coding RSS feeds, right? And and like, in those days, if we would have been having this conversation about RSS, we people would have been saying similar things like guys, this isn't sustainable. This is never gonna work this way. When it went, it went mainstream. And the you know, the big, the big organizations picked it up in everybody embedded into everything they did. That's when it got mainstream adoption. I think, to back to Chris's question, I think it's got to get embedded in everything. And we've got to get all the big players talking about this and embracing it and using it. Apple certainly has to be a part of that group to, to make sure it's being communicated and offered. And we're finding easy ways to so that everybody can take advantage of it. Today, still it I think it's still a little too complicated. And I think people, they also see the new, they also see some of the new stuff and they go, more things to do. Now, we've been asking for these things, right? There's some great things in here. We've been asking for this stuff. When you get it all at once. It can be a little overwhelming, you know? So I think that who was what was the example? And who did you say what's the Cheryl? So is? Is Patreon too hard for and Cheryl? Or is buying me a coffee too hard for no. In your opinion, Ken and Cheryl, do those two?

David Jackson  42:59  
I think so now she can she can pay for the Patreon. When you say copy this feed and paste it into your app.

Jim Collison  43:08  
Got a little toolkit. Yeah, that's why

David Jackson  43:09  
I like super cast over Patreon because they go, Oh, you're on an Android phone? Would you like to listen on Pocket Casts or whatever, and you click a button and it just opens up that app. That's what I love about that. So that's very cool. So it's

Jim Collison  43:24  
Listen, it's gonna succeed by the way, it's gonna succeed. Yeah, it's just gonna take time, I don't I don't think it's gonna, I don't think this thing is gonna fail. A version of it. I mean, it may not be in its entirety. It's gonna succeed where somebody is going to figure it out. Or listen, we're smarter than this. And somebody is going to figure this out, how to get it in how to get it, how to get people on it, how to get it mainstream, it just be a matter of time, I think at this point,

David Jackson  43:48  
Dr. says My only complaint about potty Rama is that it doesn't have a way to separate my comedy shows from my cooking shows from my pub. Yes, it does. If I share my screen again, and I go into my podcasts, I can go in here to this case, David Hooper's big podcast, I think I can do this on the web. But you can see where it's in my marketing, business and entrepreneurship. If I go over here, I do have some smart playlists. So here's my podcasting smart list. And if I go to settings, maybe the website version isn't as cool. Yeah, I can go here to settings, and maybe not. But you can go in and say when this show has a new episode, their auto playlists is what they call them versus regular playlist. So it does do like I say, it does everything I want it even just a thing where you can upload files. So if I'm on somebody's website, when I'm really subscribed to their show, I can download their file and then upload it to potty Rama and it'll be in the app on the phone. And the bookmark thing was like, Oh, that's awesome. It just doesn't do the streaming boosting thing. And I was like, oh, and I'm finding that with all these apps podcast guru. They're working on smart playlists if they get smart playlist, that might be the key the thing that's janky. That's still the word of the day, by the way, is they have a web based version that's on a way bad time loop, like a month behind. And I, they're very, I will give them that there's three guys in a basement working on this thing. And they're very attentive. And when you email them, like, Hey, we've gotten all your emails, we're working on this, we're working on that. And they said, they have something that's set up to refresh the website version, and apparently quit. So they have since fixed that, so if you have any problem with your media host or an app or something like that, reach out to them, it'd be nice. And just say, I don't know if you know this or not, but this isn't working. And they were very nice to go. Yeah, we now see that it's not so I might answer questions when when you leave, because we're, of course, the gentleman was coming in. So but that's good to know,

Jim Collison  45:47  
whatever you want to do. I got about nine minutes or so maybe a little bit more. Yeah. Just gotta get it to the birthday party.

David Jackson  45:52  
Yeah. And this is what I'm trying to find out. Liberty dude says like, what are you going to recommend for Apple for Google going away. And I'm like, I think if pod you Rama would add value for now, if I don't care about value for value, pod you Rama right now, prettiest app works on Android. And the other thing I love about it, is I can listen because for me, it's kind of a again, first world problem. I've got to tie my iPhone into my road caster to listen through my speakers. And I love the fact that there's a web version, I can just pull up the web version, click play. And then when it's time for lunch, I click stop, I grab my phone, go into the kitchen, pull up Padre Rama hit play, it picks up right where I left off, or in some cases it will do the thing will go back like six seconds to kind of get you caught up. So it's beautiful. Does everything I want, except the streaming Satoshi thing. Pod guru. Podcast guru does everything I want. But the smart playlist where I can say when this show comes a new episode, put it in that playlist. If they do that, then podcast guru wins if they can get their website version because I want a website version. And I want chapters it's weird because you don't realize what what features you use. Until you use an app that doesn't have them. Like I didn't realize how much I use chapters where like if because a lot of shows like this one has chapters in it. So if we're talking about Bitcoin in your life back, we'll click the Next button. And you'll hear what we're going to talk about in like four minutes or so when we get done with this topic. chapters are really cool. I used to hate them in the early days of podcasting. But do you have any features that you use in or what you would look for in an app?

Jim Collison  47:29  
Let me give a hot take on this one really quick? I don't know. I don't know, hot take on this. I don't know if it matters. The so so few people are using Google podcast. They're already finding different ways to do this. I mean, this, the numbers are so low. You know, newsflash, Google's in there telling people, they're getting ready to deprecate this thing. So they're already and what are they going to use? They're gonna send people to YouTube. Yeah. So you better have your YouTube stuff together, like and if you whether you like it or not, whether you agree that a YouTube video is a podcast or not, they're gonna put full their full effort on moving everybody to YouTube. That's what they're doing. So one, you better figure it out. Like you better get on YouTube. And if you want the Google people, the ones that are using Google podcasts today, if you want to keep them better figure out how to be ready for this YouTube transition. It's gonna happen. Yeah, what everybody else is already thinking player. Yeah.

David Jackson  48:29  
And that's why I'm looking because I don't want to send them to YouTube music that because of the whole, it's done a video just, it's a crappy app for podcasting. I wouldn't send anybody to Spotify. Spotify as a podcast, listening experience, I don't think is very good. So when I found potty ROM, I was like, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Except this one thing that I found podcast guru. And I was like, Oh, this is Oh, it doesn't have that. And then I pod verse is a really cool app, their problem is clean up, I can go in and it's got a list of my episodes, and I can go mark is complete, I can go to my settings and say hide things that are marked as complete. And yet it doesn't. So I keep having to step over shows I've already listened to, to the new ones. And if they can clean that up, I love pod verse. It's got everything I want. Except cleanup. It's like I when I'm done listening to an episode, like get rid of it, I don't need it. And if I want to, if I delete it, I can always go back. I know what show it was, but everything is like, oh, it's perfect. If it had this, this wouldn't be great. If it had this, I can't. So whoever gets to the list, like Daniel doesn't even really care that much about Satoshis. But he's all about cross app comments, which I don't think even exists yet. And I was like, okay, it has to be a feature that exists. So it'll be interesting to to see but

Jim Collison  49:47  
are you getting many listeners? Now you have your audiences fairly tech savvy. But are you getting people who are contacting you and saying, Hey, Google podcasts is going away? What do I do? What are you?

David Jackson  49:58  
Yeah, not a lot but Probably like three a month. Somebody's like, hey, yeah. And they're just like, What? What should I recommend? And I'm like, Well, if you don't have if you're having

Jim Collison  50:11  
podcasters, contact you who are saying, What should I recommend? The question, my question was, are do you have listeners asking you personally, for Ask the point of not harass a podcast coach or for your shows that they need to move? Not what they're recommending, oh, custom, what they need to move to? Are you getting many? You're getting many of those? No, because

David Jackson  50:33  
most of the like the people that Lipson, they're already in YouTube. But I did. That's one of the videos I need to make for the School of podcasting, because I'm going to take one of my shows on Buzzsprout, and submit it to YouTube, so that it can be a podcast on YouTube. Because,

Jim Collison  50:48  
by the way, YouTube is doing that automatically. They're not even asking you or they see a series of videos, or that you have a playlist. It's in some cases, it's it's automatically being marked as a podcast. I mean, go check your admin in YouTube in a while, get in there and check it and then watch this transition. I think they're getting ready to do some, some crazy things. So make sure you're well aware of what your YouTube feed looks like. Yeah.

David Jackson  51:15  
Well, on the other fun thing is, people are like, Well, can I count my views as download? And I'm like, going and look at your analytics on YouTube. And make sure you have some whiskey handy, because that can be soul crushing. When you're like, wow, people watch 20% of a one minute video,

Jim Collison  51:32  
you're doing the same thing on your audio, they're dead, you just don't know. Right? You just ignorance is bliss. You're like, oh, you know, it's funny. We we can because of that we we have this gold standard of a download like it's a downloaded it, guess what? It's probably has it might have less listening than that, then your video stats, in some regard. At least we can track it there. And I know in some on some platforms, you know, they're able to track it applicant tracking all that other good stuff. But the download is is not as strong as we think it is either. When we think about people listening all the way through.

David Jackson  52:10  
Well, yeah. And and when you know, when one app can go oopsie we're going to do this differently and wipe out 30% of all downloads, that that did not go over well. So

Jim Collison  52:22  
Yikes. Yeah, yikes. Yeah. Oops. Oh, we have a new standard. I be right. I mean, I think the haircut we all took when when all those standards got Yeah, put in it. Yeah. Well, and again, this is why I say don't worry about that stuff. It's Listen, it's good metrics. When you compare it to itself, month over month, year over year, awesome. The numbers themselves don't matter. The engagement matters. What are people actually doing with your podcast? How many emails are you getting in comments? Are they buying your merch? Are they supporting you on Patreon? Are they buying you a coffee? Whatever, whatever? Those are the numbers that matter? Right? It? I want to I kind of wish we didn't know any of the downloads to be honest. It's just a distraction in some regards. Are they actually following your calls to action? Yeah. Are they actually doing something?

David Jackson  53:16  
I thought about that today? Like if we didn't have downloads, like if we like people were downloading it, but we didn't have any like stats on them. Would you still do a podcast? And am I I think because it really is. You said the magic word. It's a distraction. It really is. I get it. Right. We can see what's what worked and what didn't. But so many people that was almost an episode of the School of podcasting. Five things people obsess over that you showed and one is like, Well, yeah, but I release every Thursday at 1105 in this one out at like, 1137. What happened? My audience is, um, no, they're not. Your audience is not sitting there going. Is Jim's Wait, where's Jim's episode? It's 12 minutes late. Is he dead? Like, no, it's like Apple having a bad day. But people I literally obsess over the time it's released. And I'm like, I get it. You know, I preach all the time we publish on a consistent basis. It helps people become part of your their routine. But it's not down to the second, folks. I got to go crazy on that stat. So it's kind of crazy. Yeah.

Jim Collison  54:17  
And I don't want to totally discount it. Because there are, you know, there are times you can go in there and gain insights from those stats, right? Yeah. I think the total number doesn't matter. It's when we relate the trends to themselves. And so I don't want to totally dismiss it, but I just don't, you know, I don't think that number in itself really matters because you can have 100,000 downloads but if you're not getting the engagement you need that's it for that doesn't matter. Yeah,

David Jackson  54:46  
I just thought coach somebody just said, Jim is absolutely right. Yeah, here, Craig from Inglourious podcast. I, I haven't looked at my download stats for over a year. Coach Dave, I haven't paid attention for years. Now that our show reports to a board, we're tracking the numbers again, I'm trying to tie it to outcomes memberships courses, not the easiest to track. And it's hard. Randy says I would I would still do a podcast. Because I have no idea how many downloads, I get any on any of them. And any one of them is monetized with sponsored Yeah. So I always say in January, my numbers go up. In February, my numbers go down, but my membership goes up. So I'm ecstatic and fit in this this year was no different. I got more memberships and things like that. But you have a birthday party to get to my friend. I

Jim Collison  55:34  
do I do. This is for putting up with my whatever's going on here this morning. With this cold, it's really not

David Jackson  55:42  
anything coming up on the average guy.tv. So

Jim Collison  55:45  
I took the week off because we produced six new episodes. We did six Live episodes this week and got the opportunity. Dave, the first one live, we had 1900 People 1900 live in the podcast

David Jackson  56:01  
talking about the chest room, holy categorical,

Jim Collison  56:03  
you know, is we're talking about engagement on that. One of the things I was hoping for is we were trying to as part of these podcasts, we try to sell seats to our summit, we have a conference that we do every year. And it's not the only reason we do it. But it is one of those engagement markers for me. And so as I guess I'll get I'll be able to see how effective these podcasts are. So I contacted that team. And I'm like, hey, you know, at the end of the week, I was like, Hey, how many how many seats did we sell this week? Or how many were how many were sold? And they were like, Oh, this number now like, but we did send out an email marketing campaign on Monday. And I was like, Oh, I can't separate the two we didn't do a coupon code or we didn't do you know, one of those kinds of things. And you're like, Yeah, that's one of the one of the challenges of a six, six podcasts this week. It was a long week. And and it's good to be good to be done and get some rest. So thanks for having me out. Enjoy guys behind the Dave. All right. Don't Don't Don't entice them. Don't troll him. And I'll see you guys back next week. Yeah. Alright, man.

David Jackson  57:06  
We'll see. All right, take

Unknown Speaker  57:07  
care. All right.

David Jackson  57:08  
I'm going to carry on. I'm doing this without a lower third. How crazy is that? But I thought I a bunch of questions came in and what I'm going to do watch this. Yes, that's called dead air. The last time I did this, I just kept talking and talking and talking. I was like, now let's just kind of go crazy. So I'll kind of watch the chat room as we do this. But I want to answer some of these aliases, I see so many podcasts that just seem to ramble at times, not you guys. With that said, how important is it to have a beginning storyline or theme so that people stay engaged? What's hard on this show? Because I don't know where we're going. I have an idea where we might go. But today we're talking 2.0? Because Chris, and so you had a question about 2.0. So normally, I always say Oh, actually, I don't say my buddy Eric Kay Johnson says this, nobody gets on a bus without knowing where it's going. So for example, on the school of podcasting, talking about this whole apple thing and downloads. My next episode is what do you do? When life kicks you in the face? I don't know if that's gonna be the official title of it. But hey, I just lost 40% of my audience, and I want to go eat worms and die. Okay, how do you handle that? And because there are times when you're like, I can't wait to podcast and there are other days when you're like, I got to do the podcast. So how to handle that. So I think it really is something you want to do. Craig from again, AI goes to college.com. Now Craig's, he teaches it is a college professor. And in one of his episodes, he was talking about, you know, different, you know, language models, or whatever they're called. Right. So he's talking about chat GPT. And he goes, I'm going to tell you my favorite, you know, AI tool. And it's not chat GBT. And I immediately was like, oh, wah, but there's something else besides shad GPT. And I'm not going to tell you what he picked because you have to go listen. But that was something that I was like, oh, I want to hear the answer to this. Because based on who he is, and what he does, I already have respect for his answer. And so when he put that out, it's a nice little beautiful tease, where if I say, Hey, guys, you're not gonna believe what happened this weekend. My grandma had a painting in her attic. And it turns out it was a ram brand. Stay tuned after the break. I'll tell you all about it. Well, you just told me all about it. Why would I stay tuned? I know you but if you say Hey, guys, I found something in my grandma's attic this week and you're not gonna believe what it is. Stay tuned. Okay, now I've given you a tease. So many people. I see this with interviews, where they'll be like, Hey, today, we're going to hear how Jim likes this. And Jim like this, and then Jim did this about this and then later he did this. So you're giving me the Cliff's Notes version of the interview? Why do I want to stick around for the interview? So there's, it's the art of the tease, and how you're going to benefit because who doesn't want to benefit? All benefit? What do you got? I don't know. If you do this, you'll benefit Okay, I'm down. So yeah, I think it is the beginning, especially because we all have, we don't have shorter attention spans, I don't buy into that the whole goldfish thing has been proven to be wrong, by the way. But what we do have is a better radar for detecting somebody's going to waste my time. So when I hear a show start off with Hey, guys, welcome to the Dave Jackson Power Hour. I don't really know what I'm going to talk about today. But you know, it's Thursday, and I promised you a show. So here we go. Yeah, instantly pressed up. And anytime I hear somebody talking about that thing about short attention spans, I go, if we all have short attention spans, why does the word binge exist? Right? We binge things that are good. We're not like, but we again, you got to let people know where they're going. So when you start off with weights, you hear what my cat did. And the title of the episode is how to make a living with free software. No, like, get to the I will look at the title. I think this was Kevin Schmidlin. That said this, I want to give credit where credit's due from grow the show, he said the title of your podcast is a promise to the audience. And I was like, Ooh, that's good. I'm gonna borrow that, Kevin. It's true. So when when you that's why I have the hardest time with this show. Because we have 37 topics by the time 90 minutes is over. And that's why I said, Jim, I want to start with this topic about are we and I have to come up with a title of like, are we all stuck doing best practices and not being creative, or whatever we're doing. So that was that whole beginning thing? And that's why I wanted to start with that. Because whatever the first topic is, is what I make the title of the episode about, because I've had people say, hey, the title of the episode was, you know how to deal with trolls. And you guys didn't talk about it till the 38 minute mark. Well, okay, so that's why I try to figure out, Okay, we're gonna go wherever the chat room wants to go. But what's the first thing we're going to talk about? Because that's going to be the title of the episode. Speaking of Craig from live well on flourish, and AI goes to college. He says, This might sound strange, but my metric is how many lives I effect that's hard to track. It is hard to track. But that's where I just had two new members of the school of podcasting. I had coaching with them last night, and their job recruiters and they're doing a show about how to get a job. And they were saying, I said, Okay, well, they're talking about downloads and stuff. I said, Well, hold on, before we get to downloads, why are you doing this? I go, because you need to know your why. And they're like, Well, we really want to just help people unlike Perfect, that's a great ingredient Craig does that would live well and flourish. He could care less if he makes money with it. He's just trying to people help people, you know, live well, and flourish, hence the name of the show. And so they wanted to serve people and help them get jobs. But they also said it'd be nice if we made some money and I go, okay, nothing wrong with that. It's First things first that we got to grow an audience. And then we have to set up a way for you to make money. And they're they're pretty much brand new to this. So we got to get them a website, we'll have to get them a tidy cow. I for a while I was not recommended tidy cow. They have since fixed all the problems they had. So it's a cool way to do that. Coach Dave says listener engagement is his focus of 2024. So there are many other ways and let me switch my things because I mentioned Chris Nessie, and he's in the greenroom. I hope you haven't been sitting there for a while. There he is. The man the myth, the legend. How are you my friend?

Unknown Speaker  1:03:28  
Hey, what's going on, Dave? Happy Saturday,

David Jackson  1:03:30  
happy Saturday, man. What else? Can I help you with? So one, thank

Speaker 2  1:03:34  
you for answering and addressing the question I started today's show with I appreciate that. My second question. So I've been playing with cast thematic. Yeah. And I remember years ago, I did this with my Lipson feed, where there's like that little dollar sign symbol in app like overcast. Yeah. Also in thematic, what do you add to your podcast to make that something people can click on whether it goes to pay pal or something else? And what is that called?

David Jackson  1:04:05  
It is another icon. It is called the value tag. And behind the scenes, I'm logging into Libsyn because I know I have it set up for the School of podcasting. And it is I know you have to put it, the nice thing about Lipson old interface is they had a place that said extra RSS stuff. So this is Lipson for. But I'm in the School of podcasting. And if I go to I think destinations, I'm guessing here for the record and come down to my Lipson feed there is under Advanced Options. Yes, it's left caret. And I'll put this in the show notes, podcast colon funding, space URL equals, and in my case, I have appointed a Pay Pal. And then I just have the word donate. Now, I'm not sure I guess in some places that will show up but in most places like the app, different to apps, it'll just be $1 sign. So it is the podcast colon funding tag if we want to get our geek on. And you can find that over podcasting to the number two.org. I'm sure they have that over there where you could just grab it and paste it. But that's where you put it in Lipson, I'm not sure. Like in Buzzsprout, I don't know that there's I'd have to look and see, they might actually have that, to where you could put it in there in Captivate, I don't think there is a way to add extra stuff now to their credit, most everything there. They just it's in the interface. But that's where the dollar sign comes from. It's the the funding tag. So perfect. I

Speaker 2  1:05:35  
will I will look for that in the show notes. And I appreciate it. Yeah.

David Jackson  1:05:39  
So I know I asked you this on Facebook, because when we last left off, your son was doing a show about vacuum cleaners, and then understand he is migrated to another topic. Now. He Well, we

Speaker 2  1:05:50  
do a show together that we've done for the last couple years where we tell knock knock jokes and other funny jokes. So it's appropriately called Knock knock, who's there to help. He'll be 12 in a couple of weeks. So that's something that we do together. And now he's into bigger, more expensive technology.

David Jackson  1:06:06  
Well, that's even more exciting, right? Sure. She's gonna get into drones, or, you know, there was a lot of electric cars, those can be very expensive. So that's the fun stuff. So yes, sure. She's

Unknown Speaker  1:06:17  
listening at some point. All right. Yeah.

David Jackson  1:06:19  
It's like, Wait, drones. Yes. Yeah. You want to hang around and be a co host for 17 minutes?

Unknown Speaker  1:06:26  
I could do that. Dave, let's

David Jackson  1:06:27  
go. All right. So Dr. is saying, center and Libsyn. Is there a consumption rate? Nope. Is the quick answer for that? Is there a quick consumption rate in Captivate or Buzzsprout? Nope. That's why you have to go to Liberty, you have to go to Lipson, you have to go to Apple, or Spotify. And I think I need to go look, I think Amazon added it, I just get very, very little downloads in Amazon. And I think part of that. I think part of that is when you sign up, it's kind of like Pocket Cast. They're not Pocket Cast podcast attic, the minute you get into podcast addict, they're like, Hey, we're a free app, want to donate to keep us afloat? And I get that. But I'm like, can I click play on something first, before you start begging for money? And Apple? Is there Apple cheese? Amazon is the same way when you go into basically, it's Amazon music is where they have their podcast stuff. They immediately like sign up for a 30 day trial. And I'm like, can I click play on something before you start asking me for money? And I think that's a big turnoff. I think some people are like, wait a minute, I won't have to pay for anything. And so they go find a free app. So it's one of those things I'm like, Hmm, you know, maybe not. So see, what other questions do we have here? That would

Speaker 2  1:07:39  
be the same thing with our podcasts in general, don't ya to be an awesome supporter or a Patreon or a donator? Yeah, and the first 30 seconds of your show, give them value first.

David Jackson  1:07:49  
Yeah, what do we strike me nuts. When I do the podcast rodeo show, I am now triggered if it's like, you know, Reverend Bob's, you know, Jesus hour, or whatever it is. I'm like, if I hit play, and this guy start selling Jesus hankies, in the first 45 seconds, I'm gonna pop a cord, because I'm like, That is a negative stereotype of religion. And you are furthering that, so please quit, you know, oh, we'll just do this. And the Lord will bless you just, you know, buy me a coffee and God will make your life great. And I'm like, I don't know why Minister Bob has a southern accent, but he does Doggone it. So but yeah, so the whole listen rate, do you pay much attention to your listen rate over the good old house of Ed Tech?

Speaker 2  1:08:29  
Every so often? I'll go into Apple podcasts, I'll go into podcast connect, and I'll take a look. It's not as depressing as Yeah, it might be for some people for me. But I mean, I'm just focused on talking about the things that I want to talk about and making the episodes I want to make. And, you know, because it's time shifted, you know, they'll eventually get to it, or if they don't, I mean, I'm doing my show my way.

David Jackson  1:08:50  
That's it. Because if you're not excited about the topic, what's the point? Exactly.

Speaker 2  1:08:55  
And if podcasters focus on talking about what they want to talk about, they'll find success. And yes, that's very subjective. But if you're talking about something you're passionate about, and I think you we've often compared it to, you know, being paid to climb up a mountain backwards. Yeah, right. So there's not going to be a lot of payoff unless you are, you've got a big machine behind big medium machine behind you, or you've got that existing audience from having done something else. You know, it's going to be slow. And, you know, three years, four years before you make anything, you know, and I certainly didn't get into this, like teaching to retire. I'm not here to get rich.

David Jackson  1:09:33  
Yeah. Well, I know for me anytime I do, if I ever put out an episode thinking, I think that should work, but I'm not sure. That's where I'll go in. Like I did an episode a couple weeks ago with a guy that's really into Instagram, and I'm like, this kind of fits, but it's not 100% fit. And I went in and looked and I was like yeah, this this did not fit like I wanted it wasn't a bad show, but it just, I'm not that much on Instagram. So consequently, I don't have a bunch of people that followed me from Instagram. And I also did an episode where David Hooper did an episode that I thought was amazing where he interviewed Dolly Parton. And so I did an episode where we like people tuned in to hear me and instead you listen, you tuned in to hear me listen to David Hooper. And then we both commented on it. And I had people the people that listened loved it, but there were some people like I kind of tuned in to hear Dave, and I got the wrong Dave. And I'm like, Yeah, but Hooper's great, I mean, isn't this fun? So that was an experiment. So the

Speaker 2  1:10:30  
your episode that you mentioned that you had the guest on about Instagram? Yeah, I really enjoyed that episode, I tried to leverage Instagram for my podcast. So I got value. So I obviously I don't see that episode the same way. You do. So thank you for that episode. And then, me being the big podcast about podcasting nerd that I am. I listened to your episode with David Hooper. And that inspired me to do two things. I listened to you guys do the Mystery Science, theater 3000 version of his episode. Then I went back and I listened to his whole episode. And then I've heard you talk about him before I finally subscribe to his podcast. And now I'm getting the big podcast all the time now. Yes,

David Jackson  1:11:04  
newsletter dot big podcast.com. You learned. He's programmed as now, which I've actually complained to Dave and I'm like, I sometimes listen to his show, when it's like three weeks ago. And I'm like, You're not giving me any specific and I'm like, but I know newsletter but dot big podcast.com. So you guys

Speaker 2  1:11:21  
that that is one negative is that if you're I went back and I listened to stuff in the back catalogue? Yeah, you go there, and then you gotta go and kind of find it. So yeah,

David Jackson  1:11:29  
but that I've learned I'm gonna take before I go there, I look at whatever the name of the episode I'm listening to is. And then I just search for that. And it gets you where you want to go. But you know, Dave's doing his thing. And I'm sure, you know, newsletters are great. By the way, if you don't have one start one. So what anything new and exciting in the in the world of edtech that podcasters might want to play with.

Speaker 2  1:11:50  
I mean, I'm like everybody else. And I'm finding ways to integrate artificial intelligence into my classroom and trying to get my students to use it at the high school level, and also do some teaching at the college level. So whereas for example, a lot of college professors are like, no runaway, I'm like, No, let's lean into this. And here's how you can use it as a tool. And I often whether I'm talking to students, teachers, or college students, you know, AI, is it's like a hammer, right? The hammer or any traditional tool doesn't do anything, unless we as people interact with it. So I know there's a lot of AI tools for podcasters. And you still have to make sense of whatever the output is. So you know, if you're asking, say, a chat GPT to give you 10, title options, you don't have to use any single one of those AI produced options. But those 10 things might inspire you to come up with your own original title, or, I mean, I use it to write descriptions for my episodes, I'll feed it my show notes. And you know what? I like you've often said, you know, sometimes good enough is good enough. I am no wordsmith. I'm not a writer. That's why I podcast. So if somebody else or something else is going to do some of that heavy lifting for me. I'm all for it. So I use as a tool and an accessory to enhance what I'm doing. Yeah.

David Jackson  1:13:06  
Craig, who again is a professor in Louisiana says trying to ban AI in the school is a losing proposition. Yeah, you can't know.

Speaker 2  1:13:15  
For people who say ban it, for example, in education. I said, Alright, then we need to ban the graphing calculators we need to ban we need to ban ballpoint pens as opposed to fountain pens. So there's always advancement in technology. Right? So I mean, we don't podcast in 2024, the same way we podcasted in, you know, 2005 it's evolved. Yeah. All right. So

David Jackson  1:13:37  
Dr. Says that lean in the people who say they'll never use it. It's like saying I hate apple. So I'm never eating oranges again. Yeah. It's, it scared me the first time I saw it, because I was like, Ooh, this is really cool. And, you know, it could also be used for really negative things. But it reminded me because when I showed it to my brother, and he said, What Voodoo is this that you are playing with? Now, you know, because my brother is seven years older than me. And he just was totally flabbergasted. And it may be flashback to when I back in the day, I used to teach how to send email, because it was brand new. And I remember this guy, we paired them off. And he sent an email to his buddy sitting right next to him. And he just looked at me goes dude, like it's in his inbox already. I just hit send, and it's in his inbox. He's like that I was doing that. And so when my brother is like, what is this voodoo? I was like, you know, I've seen this before, where new technology just blows people's minds. And I was like, I didn't run away from email, you know, you can use it as a tool. So I have been slowly trying and it's weird because if you go to Amazon, and you search for like, how to learn Chet GPT there are 500 books, all written by chat GPT I'd kind of like one written by human, but it's something I'm slowly leaning into. In fact, eventually, I right now I use cast magic. I know swells really popular. There are a bunch of these and I'm like, eventually I want to just use chat GPT and know how to do it because that's all those tools are doing anyway, do you have a favorite AI tool,

Speaker 2  1:15:06  
I am a chat GPT user to the point where I do pay for it. I've been paying for it for probably a year now. So I'm paying that $20 a month for that. And, again, it's helping me as a podcaster. It's helping me as a teacher. And, you know, I mean, I think it's the best bargain around, you've got the custom GPS. Now, one thing I've added into my workflow is I used to have a template in Photoshop to do my episode, artwork for each episode of the show. And I would change that template from year to year. And this year, I decided I'm going to use AI to do all my individual episode artwork pieces. So I usually feed it a description of the episode, the title, the episode number, and I might do a couple of iterations. And that looks to me a little cooler on my website. You know, when I share it on social media, it's interesting artwork. And yeah, you know, I'm not hiding the fact that it's AI. But Chachi Beatty is to me, you know, we talk about like an audio editor. And you know, you could learn audacity, or you could learn some other DAW, and you typically will not learn another one, you'll go with what you first learned, I first got into AI with chat GPT. I play with other tools, so I'm familiar with them. But push comes to shove, and I got to do something and I want to leverage AI to do it. I'm going to chat GPT that's

David Jackson  1:16:25  
it. CASS magic just rolled out studio. And so you can highlight words, and it will make this cute little artwork. And then you can say like, in this case, I said, search for time. So it gave me a clock and it put it in the background. It does. I mean, it would make sense. They're basically using it to promote cast magic, which is at the bottom of the artwork, I didn't see a way to turn that off. And Dr. was saying, uh, Craig was somebody asked, What do you do if you get a if you get something from a student? Especially because you're teaching high school in college? What happens? Yeah, here it is. If a student sends you a chat GPT generated essay, do you correct it with Jack GPT?

Speaker 2  1:17:02  
Well, so here's the thing. And I have had arguments with my colleagues at the high school and the college level. If you're creating assignments, and you're asking students to do things, that they can just go out to chat GPT and have it do you as the teacher need to change the assignment. So that way, what you're asking students to do can't be done with AI. That's my opinion. That's it, that's gonna change the game a little bit. And to be fair, when I ask kids to write something, I will use AI to help give me feedback. Right, so I can give it a rubric, I can give it all the criteria of the assignment. And I can have it read the essay, I can have it, check out the blog post, and check it to the rubric. And then I can interject my own feedback on what my gut tells me about, you know, a particular submission.

David Jackson  1:17:52  
Dr. Says I Love to talk about props and cast magic. And when I do the most is I will go into that opening paragraph and click Modify and say write this in first person. Because it's like today, Jim Collison and Dave Jackson, talk about the exciting, great, bodacious way, and I'm like, Okay, I'm never gonna use the word bodacious. You know, they always have way too many adjectives. And I'll just like, write this in person at first person coming from Dave Jackson. And that gets me a little closer to what I'm looking for. But I know, I think my favorite prompt and cast magic was I will go into Hindenburg and make chapters, then you can right click in Hindenburg and copy your chapters as text. So I'll do that I'll take out the timestamps and say, write an article. So I've uploaded my podcast is transcribed it. And I will say write an article using the following subheadings. And that was the one that like a you always, always always and by that, I mean, never forget to look at it before you publish it. But that was one that I was like, I don't think I need to change any of this. But I still read the whole thing because it only takes one sentence to blow your integrity. Have you ever seen AI hallucinate in your travels? hallucinations? No, because

Speaker 2  1:19:02  
what again, what I'm using it for whether it's again, as the podcast or what I'm doing as a teacher? I'm not I mean, I'm not trying to push it to its limits. I'm not trying to get it to, you know, be racist, or say inappropriate. Like, I'm actually I'm using it for a specific purpose. You know, if I'm trying to write objectives for my lesson plans, or come up with questions, I can ask students, you know, I'm not asking you to do a lot of research for me, and I know that I know the content in my classroom. But, you know, for me to come up with a lot of differentiated and individual resources for kids. I could have changed the reading level of an article based on you know, the Lexile levels. I'm learning about my students throughout the year. So I can have it modify things that I give it so hallucinations, no, not not in my experience. There you go.

David Jackson  1:19:52  
And my buddy life after blindness. I talk about his show all the time. It's one of my favorite exam. Examples of a great show name, says Michael Soft copilot was built, had GPT built into it are some other mentions here, Craig had one that we should check out Gemini from Google, which I think that was something before they just rebranded it. So they're all these fun tools. It's just a matter of, you know, we all like to pretend we have the time to just spend hours studying prompting and like, well, like anything else a little here. But

Speaker 2  1:20:21  
a lot of people aren't spending the time and more people need to spend the time even if you never publicly use something that gives you it's important for people and podcasters. Especially get familiar, try the tool, see what it does. You don't have to use it. But give it a shot. Be open minded to it. Yeah,

David Jackson  1:20:41  
it's a, there have been times when I've, for a while I was doing a local show. And I would just copy the story out of the local newspaper thrown into chant GPT and go rewrite this in two paragraphs, because maybe it was six, and it would give me two, I would read it and go yep, that's accurate copy paste there was so it was one of the things Oh, my God, this is this will work because that's basically what I used to do. I used to look at it and just summarize the article. And I'm like, Well, this can do it in 10 seconds if that. And I was like, I saved me a huge amount of time. So there are uses for it. So it's like anything? Yeah, can I throw

Speaker 2  1:21:17  
out another tip that people might want to try it as a tent? So here's a really easy thing. And I've done this before. I remember a couple years ago, you talked about a spreadsheet you made to kind of keep track of your stats. Yeah, do the graph. So I still do that. Thank you for that. But it tracks my episode titles over the course of a year. So what I've done is I will take from time to time, I'll take the episode titles. And I will say based on previous episodes of my podcast, give me 10 or 15 topics I might want to create an episode about based on things I've already talked about. Oh, then. So that's me, giving it the information to reference not just pulling from anywhere on the internet, right, but stuff I've already done. And then I can say, you know, I've given it the data to from the spreadsheet, you know, based on the information here, give me some analysis. Which one is really good for that? Oh, there it goes one way to literally Oh, Claude, sorry, you can upload a PDF of your spreadsheet, you can upload an XLS file. And you can have it kind of analyzed data for you real easy. And if you can feed some of your podcast data, maybe you can get some recommendations based on titles, download numbers, averages that you've already accumulated and calculated.

David Jackson  1:22:34  
Yeah, I know, if you're paying for jet GPT. There's, they're almost like plugins for WordPress, you can buy things and one of them is you can give it a link to a YouTube channel, a YouTube video. And it will then watch he said in quotation marks and give you a summary of the video. And I was like, that could be a huge time saver. It's kind of tricky. Because like, you know, on one hand, that means you're not gonna go back and watch the video. But I was like, so you're kind of flat, like you're putting a lot of trust that it got it right. But well,

Speaker 2  1:23:02  
there's one show I do called podcast PD, we live stream it, you know, similar to this. And I don't release it the same day that we do it as the live stream. So I have a couple of days that the YouTube scratch transcript will then be available. And I will take that transcript and I will now have it. Right me podcast show notes that I then go through and modify. Right. And then I put into our template that goes on to our website. But it's kind of like this. I don't always keep track of the topics that we talked about in the moment. So I can have it do that.

Unknown Speaker  1:23:35  
Alright, well there you go. Gotta go Dave. Happy Saturday. All right, man. Yeah, thank you.

David Jackson  1:23:41  
And you can find him at Chris Nessie that ch ri s ne si.com. His show is house of Ed Tech. And you know what, that's a good time to we hear the doorbell. It is time will a couple of final comments here. Craig is saying I'm finding co pilot better for my tasks such as grammar, vocabulary, generating questions, then chat GPT or Gemini, and Coach Dave, I have many GPT books, etc. I've pushed it, etc. I pushed it Eminem analysis, graphics with words. There are limitations. If you guys haven't seen the new videos from text, I think it's Soro or something like that Soros, maybe that's what's his name, Tyler Perry. You know, but Dima, he was going to add on to his compound. He has this huge movie studio in Atlanta. And he saw that and went, Oh, hold on a second. Because it's some of it was really amazing. Some of it was they have some mistakes that were pretty funny. But Coach Dave says, Yeah, again, there are limitations. When it doesn't know it'll make up tangent responses. So yeah, just be careful anything with Chet GPT. Be careful, any kind of AI really be sure to read it before you put it out there because I have seen it. My favorite is when somebody had a blog post that said that there's been a disk Every problem with podcasting since the since the 90s. And I'm like there was definitely a discovery problem with the podcast in the 90s because it didn't exist yet. So and they it's to the best of my knowledge. It's still there it was on Castillo's dot com on their blog. Some guy wrote it. And the other thing was the blog post was a mile long and I'm like somebody really liked this topic. So I want to say thanks to the chat room for keeping me calm. And thanks to Chris Nessie, Chris nessie.com. podcast branding.co, based on a true story, podcast.com. And of course, the School of podcasting. If you're looking to start playing or grow your audience, School of podcasting.com/coach will save you on either a monthly or yearly subscription. I saw somebody asked for that earlier. And that's how you do it. So we'll see you next week with another episode of Ask the podcast coach. We'll see everybody

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