Defining a Call To Action

Dave Jackson [00:00:00]:
Ask the podcast coach for June 22, 2024. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is. It's that music. That means it's Saturday morning. It's time for ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the school from from nobody likes a journal in the box from the school of podcasting dot com. And joining me right over there, his voice has already changed, is the one and only Jim Collison from the average guy dot tv.

Dave Jackson [00:00:30]:
Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Jim Collison [00:00:32]:
Good, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. Wasn't that a Brady Bunch episode

Dave Jackson [00:00:35]:
or Yes.

Jim Collison [00:00:36]:
Not Greg, but what's the Peter. What's the Peter Brady. Right? Peter Brady. Well, anyways, good, good to be back on Ask the Podcast Coach. Big thanks, Danny, filling in for me. Last week, always nice that we have a great community who can fill in. In my absence, I got to spend some time with some younger guys, just chatting, asking some questions. It was definitely worth the time.

Jim Collison [00:00:56]:
Thanks for giving me a week off, And it's always good to be back.

Dave Jackson [00:00:59]:
Yeah, the I swear, I don't know if it existed or not. But when I was in like junior high, I think my mom went to Kmart and shopped and looked for like the Peter Brady collection. I was like, what are you doing, mom? You want me to wear that to school? Like, oh, you're killing me. So, yeah. Anyway, but, hey, you know, it's it's midsummer. Time to get up and go. We're gonna do that, of course, with the the awesome coffee pour. There it is.

Dave Jackson [00:01:28]:
And that coffee pour is brought to you by our good friend, Mark, over at podcastbranding.co. Because, you know, they're gonna see you before they hear you. And if you want something to look good, there really is only one place to go, and that is podcast branding dotco. I've used Mark for podcast hot seat, your podcast website, podcast rodeo show, ask the podcast coach, school of podcasting, and the list goes on and on. He's done. I saw on Facebook, I think he just went over 500 different artwork that he's now done for podcasts. And, of course, he also does your whole website if you need that. So this is a guy that's not only a podcaster, not only an award winning graphic artist, but he's got lots of experience.

Dave Jackson [00:02:12]:
Isn't that what you want? So he knows what works. And the the beautiful thing is he will sit down with you 1 on 1 and listen to what your show is about, then let his marketing money I've ever spent. Every time I have him do something, I'm like, perfect. That's exactly money I've ever spent. Every time I have him do something, Mike, it's perfect. That's exactly what I wanted. So check him out over at podcastbranding.co.

Jim Collison [00:02:42]:
And, of course, a big thanks to our good friend, Dan Lefebvre, over there based on a true story, based on truestorypodcast.com. I've missed 2 weeks, so a bunch of movies covered in that: Loving Waterloo, J. Edgar, Amelia, all available for you in episodes. Dan does a great job. And if you're a movie buff, it's gonna be your go to podcast. I'm just gonna say it. Or it's during the summer, you got some extra time, you got some extra time, you got some extra time, you got some I'm just gonna say it. Or it's during the summer, you got some extra time, you need something extra to listen to, give it a download.

Jim Collison [00:03:10]:
Give it a listen. Check it out today based on a true story out at basedonatruestorypodcast.com. And of course, Dan, thanks for your sponsorship.

Dave Jackson [00:03:19]:
Yeah, I saw a thing and read it this morning and I thought we could start with this because we're gonna talk about yapping. I've heard the phrase stop your yapping. But when I saw this, I was like, you know, maybe this is a kindler, gentler Dave. You know, maybe we all start someplace. But this this guy said he was looking for a podcast name. And he said, I want to start a podcast. Just me. And then I don't know what this means.

Dave Jackson [00:03:46]:
In parentheses, he says F20. And I'm like, okay, but I'm having trouble trying to find a name for it. I won't have a specific talk, a specific topic to talk about. I'm basically just gonna be yapping. And maybe that's it. Just yapping. But in an organized way, you know, basically about life problems, thoughts, drama, stuff like that. I would appreciate the help.

Dave Jackson [00:04:11]:
I'm also Hispanic, so Spanish podcast names are welcomed, too. And so my first thing was when he said, I'm going to be talking about everything. There was a part of me that was like, Yeah, no, that's not a that's not a good answer, my friend. But then I thought, you know, and I even said, there we go. Danny has filled it in. F 20 stands for female. That is 20. Why are the comments not coming up? I'm clicking.

Dave Jackson [00:04:37]:
Hold on. What's going on? There we go. And so, you know, there was a part of me that's like, you know, go back and figure out what you're gonna talk about and come on. But I was like, on the other hand, there are those 2. I I have building a better Dave, which is gonna have a new episode this weekend. But that's just something I put out whenever I feel like it. There is absolutely zero thought of monetization on that. And just it's just me yapping, you know, and I thought maybe this is maybe we just all need to start with a yapping podcast, get our feet wet, figure out what an RSS feed is and and go from there.

Jim Collison [00:05:12]:
If your yapping is interesting and entertaining and fun, people may I mean, listen, there's plenty of yap, yapping podcasts out there if we're going to use, if we're going to continue using

Dave Jackson [00:05:23]:
the term.

Jim Collison [00:05:24]:
And I think it just means just, just chatting, right, type deal. There's some people who find that very interesting, and, and they find it funny. Listen, I think there's some element of what we do here, Dave. It's a little

Dave Jackson [00:05:38]:
bit yapping.

Jim Collison [00:05:39]:
We're kind of yapping every week. So again, I think it all goes back. If it's interesting, if you can find an audience, if you're a good marketer, if you, you know, if you do all those things, that and depending upon what you want from a success standpoint, I mean, I do it, if that's what you want to do, and then set your expectations accordingly. And then do what you need to do to make it as popular or unpopular as you want.

Dave Jackson [00:06:04]:
Yeah. Chris Nesi in the chat room says school is out for me now, because he's teacher over at House at EdTech. My wife and I are creating a fun podcast summer that will launch in the fall. There you go. That's what summer vacation. What'd you do on your summer vacation? I started a podcast with my wife. That's cool. Yeah.

Jim Collison [00:06:21]:
Maybe it'd be fun. That could be a fun marriage. It could either improve it or or destroy it

Dave Jackson [00:06:27]:
or destroy it. Yes. Danny says my first podcast was a Yappy podcast where I talked about a new story or something that happened that week while I I sipped a dram. A dram. My favorite drink. That's okay. A drink.

Jim Collison [00:06:41]:
That should be a dram. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:06:42]:
There you go. My favorite single malt whiskey. Enjoyed that one. That would be fun. There you go. But I there are there was one called the drunk cast. And they would basically all get hammered and turn on the microphones. And I'm like, well, that's

Jim Collison [00:06:55]:
If you're funny and drunk, that's doable. Some people aren't so funny. And Yeah. You're funnier. You're not as funny as you think. You know, you, you know this, Dave. You've been around a bunch you've been at a podcast conference around a bunch of us I remember the time that had been drinking, and you had not. And you came in, and we were all laughing.

Jim Collison [00:07:15]:
And you did not have that look of contentment and satisfaction

Dave Jackson [00:07:18]:
on

Jim Collison [00:07:18]:
your face. You're like, Oh, great. I've joined a bunch of drunk people. So and we thought we were hilarious. I mean, we just thought we were hilarious.

Dave Jackson [00:07:28]:
But Between playing in a band where you're often, you know, do you know the electric slice? You know, that whole 9 yards and then married to a flaming alcoholic for 10 years. That was that's a boatload of stuff. So but yeah, there we go. And then Chris is saying, as the podcast coach, it's our new tagline, yapping and rapping.

Jim Collison [00:07:47]:
Yeah. So You

Dave Jackson [00:07:49]:
know, and then Doctor says it's hard to yap and be fun. In a solo show, it's much easier as a dialogue versus a monologue.

Jim Collison [00:07:58]:
Well, maybe, may no, I think there's some good radio folks. I mean, love them or hate them, Rush Limbaugh was a yapper. Like, I mean, Rush would just yap by himself. I mean, he had open phones Friday and all that other stuff where

Dave Jackson [00:08:14]:
but,

Jim Collison [00:08:14]:
but he loved to hear himself talk. Let's just be really clear about that. And he. It was

Dave Jackson [00:08:22]:
almost one word. Like, he's talking about like, what? All right.

Jim Collison [00:08:26]:
Yeah. He was a, he was a yapper for sure. I mean, he asked about politics. Right? Obviously, but sometimes other things. But yeah, I mean, you can do a yapping and he was very popular. Right? Very popular in the day. So I think you can do a yapping, you know, solo show and somehow somehow make it work. The sports guys do this all the time.

Dave Jackson [00:08:44]:
Yeah. Yeah. Jim Rome. Because what what's weird is so today on the show, we're gonna talk about topic a and then b, and why did so and so do this? And then it's like and then he'll start to do topic a and have to take a commercial break because, you know, radio. They'll come back and he'll spend half of his next segment explaining the things that they're going to talk about topic a, topic b, and topic c, and then he'll finish topic a and have to take another break. It's like they barely inch, but because half their time is spent refreshing what they just did or resetting what they did because in radio, they say you get a new audience like every 10 minutes. Like somebody's getting out of the car and a new person's getting into the car because where else you're gonna listen to a podcast these days?

Jim Collison [00:09:30]:
But Rome would take these giant pauses in his, I, you know, 10 years ago when I was listening to him more often than I do I haven't heard him in a long time. But he would do these giant pauses where he would say something. And it was literally just twice as long as that dead air. And, and you would think, Wow, does that, that, that works? That dead air works? Worked for Jim Rome. And that was

Dave Jackson [00:09:54]:
his job. And of course, somebody's bringing up Paul Harvey. Yeah. There was a guy, he wasn't really yapping, though. He was more He

Jim Collison [00:10:01]:
was reading. He was reading.

Dave Jackson [00:10:02]:
Yeah. He was very prepared.

Jim Collison [00:10:05]:
Yeah. And Hello, Americans. Yeah. Good day. But there's army.

Dave Jackson [00:10:11]:
Page 2.

Jim Collison [00:10:12]:
Out of that story. Yeah. The The kids are like, who?

Dave Jackson [00:10:16]:
Yeah.

Jim Collison [00:10:17]:
What? I mean, I grew up. My dad listened up to, you know, AM radio and Saturday all day Saturdays. And, of course, you heard Paul Harvey all the time.

Dave Jackson [00:10:25]:
So WHL.

Jim Collison [00:10:26]:
That's part of my childhood. A big part of my childhood. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:10:29]:
Yeah. I remember we had we had really crappy cars growing up. And there was a Plymouth Duster that we owned that was about 80% Bondo and and I was in the middle of the front seat. My buddy was on the passenger side. My mom was driving us to school and just turning the knob. There was almost this little AM radio and the speakers in the front and just, you know, WHLO. And I was like, and I was like, are we gonna listen to? Because back then, you know, FM was where all the cool kids were. So yeah, Todd the Gator.

Dave Jackson [00:10:58]:
Yeah, I miss Paul Harvey. I used to listen to it while riding with my dad at work. Everybody's listening with their parents

Jim Collison [00:11:04]:
and with their dad. Yeah, you can you can get them on YouTube, by the way, if you wanna go back and listen to some of those. You can you can do that. Get nostalgic.

Dave Jackson [00:11:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. You can find him there. And then early versions the very early versions of that's the way I heard it which was Mike Rowe. He he very much tipped the hat to Paul Harvey and said, oh, yeah. I'm I'm basically stealing his format. And then he got a bad case of roganitis and now his shows are, you know, an hour and a half long. So

Jim Collison [00:11:34]:
Well, listen. Jon Tesh has gone that direction. I don't know if you ever listened to Jon Tesh. He's got a he's got an FM radio.

Dave Jackson [00:11:40]:
I've heard him on the radio.

Jim Collison [00:11:41]:
Yeah. Pop pop radio, you know, he plays eighties nineties stuff. Yeah. He he started with these, you know, he's got these little segments, these, you know, the, the music. And he comes on, and it's some kind of science thing, you know. And it's, he's just reading it, right? But he's got that John Tash voice. Well, I don't know when, maybe a year ago, maybe 2, he started letting his producer talk. And this guy's not I mean, it's John Tash.

Jim Collison [00:12:07]:
John Tash has got the voice.

Dave Jackson [00:12:09]:
Right.

Jim Collison [00:12:09]:
He's got the cadence. He's got producer Bill or Bob or Mike or

Dave Jackson [00:12:14]:
Right.

Jim Collison [00:12:14]:
Whoever. No. No, he doesn't have any of that. Like, it's not and then he's kind of just, he's just kind of an average guy. And he, and I've noticed over the last couple months, he's gotten really bold in what he's saying. And you're like, This is interesting that John has gone from a completely solo show to adding as producer, who's I don't think is very good. I think he's just, he's just adding them. It's just color commentary.

Jim Collison [00:12:41]:
And so, you know, you kind of go, John, what are you doing, John? I know you wanted something, you wanted another voice or you wanted something new. But he listen, that's a big show. It's a big syndicated show. So it must be getting decent ratings for, for that to be allowed. Because if Jon Tesh's numbers started to drop, the producer would be silenced, like, Get that guy out of there. Right? So it must, it must be working. But it's another one of those format changes that you kind of go, You know, like, like Mike Rowe or, or like John Tesh.

Dave Jackson [00:13:15]:
Well, speaking of that, mister, I work for a polling company. Yeah. How is there anything? And maybe you can answer this maybe like, let's say I'm Jon Tash. I make a format change and bringing in producer Bob. How long do I let that go to give it official test? Is there any kind of

Jim Collison [00:13:36]:
information? I don't know on, on, in media, what you do. Some, you know, there's some in TV, sometimes they do that too fast. I mean, if Seinfeld is an example, right? They probably should have canceled that, and he didn't. And of course, then it's the, you know, from 3 years on, it got real popular. Then there's maybe probably been some things that have been allowed to go on too long. In TV, they whack them pretty fast. I think in radio, you get a little bit longer of a, of a kind of leeway.

Dave Jackson [00:14:08]:
Because you always hear about the ratings books. You know, what the China so I don't know if that's a even still a thing or if it's, you know, daily now or what. But I think

Jim Collison [00:14:17]:
Nielsen still sends out the books. I think

Dave Jackson [00:14:19]:
they do.

Jim Collison [00:14:19]:
And you fill in. It's crazy. You fill in.

Dave Jackson [00:14:22]:
Oh, jeez.

Jim Collison [00:14:23]:
Could Yeah. Couldn't you this was like a year ago. Couldn't you just do that online? Like yeah, because

Dave Jackson [00:14:29]:
I mean there's some things you can test like right now I'm running ads on buzzsprout ads and I've gotten maybe 15 clicks and I think I'm almost 4,000 impressions in and so not a and again, anytime you do ads, it's so tricky because there's the ad you're running. There's the page you're sending them to. And then the show in this case that I picked almost all the shows are about people looking for exposure. So financial people that who who should have a podcast, you know, speakers, things like that. So it's hard to tell what, like, if something isn't working, why is it? But I was like, well, in this case, I'm gonna give 10,000 impressions and see what happens. And the good news is I like the way they're doing this now because you can pick obviously they get to pick you but then you get to say yes you can run my ad where before pretty much anybody could run your ad and I blew through my inventory in like a day and a half. We're now the same audience should hear my ad multiple times. So maybe that'll translate into some stuff.

Jim Collison [00:15:35]:
Chris, Chris says in Check Christmas, he said David Lee Roth got 3 months on radio before he was canceled. We were just talking about him in pre show. Yeah. With 3 I let's, Okay, let's, let's take this, let's bring this back to our audience for a second. Most of us aren't, you know, producing national radio shows we're not doing television, right? But I would think for us, for the average podcaster since I'm the average guy, I'll talk from that, from that perspective For the average podcaster, I think you're gonna want to think about what, whatever channel you're using to measure this, whether it's going to be downloads, or like in the case of ads, is it going to be engagement? Or in the case of feedback, like, well, let's say affiliates, is it being purchased? Or feedback, if you just, if you're requesting email feedback. I think you need a good 3 to 6 months to let that roll through to see if it's gonna work. One, if it's a segment you've changed and you don't like it, just stop doing it. If you don't like doing it say you get a month or 2 into it, and you're like, This is terrible.

Jim Collison [00:16:37]:
Stop. If you don't like it, it will absolutely show in what you do. Like, you know, you will be angry as you're reading the copy, as you're doing the segment, whatever, whatever can that, that comes across in your voice. It comes across in your body language. It comes across in everything you do. So just, if you get into it and you hate it, just stop. If you really like it, and you're still getting negative feedback on it, that may be one you push through a little bit longer. Right? You know, you, you, you say, Well, you know what, I really like doing this I'm gonna keep doing it.

Jim Collison [00:17:08]:
I think in that middle ground, if it's Okay, and it's getting Okay results, just kill it. You know, just kill it. Now one of the things, by stop doing it, listen to the feedback, stop doing it, and all of a sudden you get a bunch of feedback. Hey, like, Hey, why did you stop doing that? Sometimes you need that break to generate people won't send you feedback on positive things all the time, but they're great at negative feedback. And one of those things is, Why did you pull that? I love that segment. Why did you pull it up? So sometimes you might need to and this may be counterintuitive to some people you might need to pull it away to get the feedback that you were looking for in the beginning. Right? Doing more of it may not get you that feedback. You may need to pull it away for a while.

Jim Collison [00:17:50]:
So just those are maybe 3 scenarios, Dave. I don't know. What do

Dave Jackson [00:17:52]:
you think? Well, Danny's got a great point here. He says he agrees with you. It still takes an average of 7 listens or views etcetera of something to initiate a brand recall, which is where the brand, you know, lift comes from. So it needs some time. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would say at least a month, if not to, you know, a month is not very, especially if you're only doing a weekly show. You know, I heard somebody say I've always heard that to 7 times. But I've also heard in some cases up to 12, depending on what it is and how often and you know, but yeah, I to me, I just know once I had a I was doing the Jim Rome thing just to keep on his thing And he has a thing where he says, give me 3. Listen to me 3 times.

Dave Jackson [00:18:34]:
If you don't like me by 3 times, you're not going to like me. And so I did that and I had this jingle. There was a pod safe song, and this band would sing 123. And then I I grabbed the music, and I would say, like, school of podcasting is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I would have these guys come back in 12. I'm like, give me 3 listens if you don't like me. And and, like, literally, I put that out in, like, the day after it came out. Everybody's like, that is the most annoying jingle.

Dave Jackson [00:19:02]:
Do not play that again. So that was one where when I when you get like, I think I have like 4 or 5 people that said that was annoying that I was like, that's enough. I don't need to wait a month on that one.

Jim Collison [00:19:13]:
Maybe. Maybe maybe not. Like the, the Cigar Authority Ed is with us today. They must have recorded it ahead of time. And so Ed's hanging out in the chat. They have some super annoying ads in their program that stick in your head. Right then, all of a sudden, they become favorites. You start singing them.

Jim Collison [00:19:32]:
I was walking up the stairs singing the Jose Dominguez song just the other day. And, you know, something so yes, I agree with you, Dave. Sometimes you get that negative feedback you just need to jettison it. But, but maybe not. Maybe it needs to hang around people need to complain about it, then they can love to complain about it. Then they love to make fun of it. And it can be a, it can be a lightning rod in your podcast where, where people love they'll give you a lot of negative feedback, but you get some, it's doing its job as far as brand or brand recognition. So I don't know.

Jim Collison [00:20:06]:
I'm not I guess I'm saying don't immediately throw it out. Don't be, don't be too quick to throw it out.

Dave Jackson [00:20:12]:
Well, and Rich Graham has a great question. He's like jingles are a cool idea. Where do you get something like that? Look up the Jeff and Jeff is g e o f f. The Jeff Smith. He's the guy that did one for my he I used him to redo the marketing musician podcast and he does a lot of stuff for no agenda. There are AI tools now that I've yet to hear 1. I know there's there's one out there that's supposed to go. This one's good, but I know you can have AI jingles because I had one and it was it was it was good until it wasn't.

Dave Jackson [00:20:48]:
You're like, oh, this isn't bad. Oh, this is oh, yeah. Oh, train wreck. Okay. Never mind. But I know there are are things now that you can put in, like, a topic, and it'll come up with a word. I forget the the URL because it was just it was just not good. But I've heard other people like, oh, no.

Dave Jackson [00:21:03]:
You need to use this one, and AI will make a I was talking to somebody and they said they actually have AI music that they've, like, written songs with. Like, they've used AI to help do this. Yeah. Suno AI. Yeah. That's the one I think I was playing with. I was like that is not good. But they were saying that somehow AI had helped them write a song and they eventually put it on Spotify.

Dave Jackson [00:21:25]:
Now, I don't know how well that's working. But I mean, I was laughing because in my last newsletter over podcasting observations.com, I just talked about how I'm doing something new and it seems to work and that is when I wake up, I figure out 3 things that I want to do before the end of the day. And so and I said, so 3 is a magic number. And I guess it's because it's it's more than 1. And you kind of have to prioritize which ones you're gonna pick and immediately, you know, 3, it's a magic number was a jingle on Schoolhouse Rock and I was amazed at how much Schoolhouse Rock was stuck in my head. You know, I can sit here and go 1 times 12 is 12. 2 times 12 was 24. 3 times 12 is 36.

Dave Jackson [00:22:10]:
You know, they had this whole jingle and you'd sing along was really catchy. So whoever wrote those did a great job. So yeah, I mean, I well, how Rob has a podcast. That guy came up to me once in a conference and sang my jingle to me. He's like, the school of podcasting with Dave Jackson. I was like, alright, because it's sticking in your head.

Jim Collison [00:22:30]:
It sticks. It sticks. I just went to OpenAI, the chat GPT version. And first I asked, Do you know, do you know about Ask the Podcast Coach? And it actually brought back a whole bunch of information about it. I like to do that first, because then I know it's got some context. And then I said, Can you write a marketing jingle for the show? And here's what you want, you want to hear what it came up with? The marketing jingle? Verse 1: Are you ready to podcast your dreams? Joined Jim and Dave. They've got the means. From newbie tips to pro advice, they'll help you grow, and that's precise.

Jim Collison [00:23:04]:
Now this is the course. Ask the podcast coach they're live every week answers to your questions, the insights you seek. With Jim Collison and Dave Jackson, too, your podcast journey, they'll guide you through. Okay. It's, it gave me 3 verses for this. It's a bridge.

Dave Jackson [00:23:25]:
Take me to the bridge!

Jim Collison [00:23:27]:
And do you change keys when you go to the bridge? Is that the final

Dave Jackson [00:23:31]:
Oh, if you're Barry Manilow, you do. You go up half a stub. They'll

Jim Collison [00:23:34]:
guide you through. Yeah, well, there you go. Got tech troubles or need some flair? They've got the wisdom they truly care. Monetize, engage and hit those charts. With the podcast coach, you'll master the arts.

Dave Jackson [00:23:48]:
Oh, good. I was hoping they were gonna rhyme farts, and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be bad. Jim drank too much coffee and now has the farts. Yeah.

Jim Collison [00:23:56]:
Well, that does happen. That's that's happened before. So there you go. You can get your own you can get your own jingle. That that's Ed, you can maybe if, if Dave because Dave is always Dave Groffalo he's always writing jingles and stuff. I don't know, Ed, maybe this is a new thing for Dave to get some of the jingles from that he needs

Dave Jackson [00:24:15]:
from there. Where did you go to get that?

Jim Collison [00:24:18]:
This is the open AI version. So Oh, okay. Chatgbt.com.

Dave Jackson [00:24:23]:
Got it.

Jim Collison [00:24:23]:
So yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:24:24]:
Todd. Pretty pretty cool. Yeah. Todd Degater said, I think some listeners like the repetitive self promo ads. It's like a warm blanket that reminds them they're in the right place. Same with the tree of ladies. Yeah. I've had people say, Jason Bryant once.

Dave Jackson [00:24:39]:
I I said, I'm thinking of changing the opening music of the school of podcasting. He's like, don't you dare. He's like, man, when I hear that music, I'm like, yeah, it's time for Dave. And I was like, alright, you know, so it's part of your brand.

Jim Collison [00:24:50]:
Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. People look, I listen, I've interviewed guests who've listened to my show, the Home Gage Geeks, and it's got a little guitar. You know, I've got this little guitar riff that opens the

Dave Jackson [00:25:01]:
show.

Jim Collison [00:25:01]:
And when we do it live, I don't play that in live. I add that in post. And, you know, people, I've had people in the chat join us for the first time, like, Where's the music? Like, and then I had one guy do the air guitar, like, you know, playing the intro in his head, you know, thinking about so those kind of repetitive music pieces, I think, are super important. They're a little Pavlovian, you you know, they get you kind of conditioned. Like, Oh, I'm in the right place. I'm listening to the right thing. When I hear you're, you're hit it, ladies, I know where I'm at. There's no question in my mind I'm getting ready to listen to school podcasting.

Jim Collison [00:25:39]:
So I think those things are important. If they're listen, if they're a little cheesy or if they're a little cringe worthy is that what we say? Cringe worthy? That may, that may be good. Actually, not not bad.

Dave Jackson [00:25:50]:
I know people. I know the last two episodes, and I I just kinda did it the one time. I was like, oh, that's different. And it and sometimes it's just doing something just a little different. So people go, wait, Dave didn't say hit it, ladies. He said, let's start the show. Yeah. You know, he's like, but I've had people say when I go hit it, ladies, they kind of go, it's like, I don't know why it just like, maybe because I'm like, yeah, but I just picture, you know, Gary brought up the Robert Palmer video.

Dave Jackson [00:26:15]:
I'm like, I got 3 chicks, 3 microphones, and black dresses, you know, and I'm they're gonna start off the show. I'm like, whatever. So, you know, people can always find something to be offended about. But here's here's a fun one. Doctor wants to know, and this is one of those that she says, can we define a call to action? For instance, is giving out your contact info a call to action? It is if you're saying you can contact me at, you know, David, whatever, you know, or our listeners are so used to hearing it that it might not count as a call to action. That one call to action per episode thing. Well, you can have What I always say is only give one like, don't go follow me on instagram at school of podcasting.com and youtube at davidjackson@youknowblahblahblah. Like, no.

Dave Jackson [00:27:07]:
No. No. So for me, you could at the beginning of the show say, hey. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you like the show, I'd love to hear about it. Schoolofpodcasting.com/contact. That's a call to action. What I I mean, we've had on the podcast review show, I think the record was 11.

Dave Jackson [00:27:24]:
There was somebody gave 11 calls to action at the end. And at that point, you lost them after probably the third one. Like, their their brain has just turned to soup because they didn't know they're supposed to have to remember these. They didn't know they were being tested. So by the time you get to the 5th one, they're like, wait, what was the first one? So I don't know. Jim, calls to action.

Jim Collison [00:27:44]:
Well, yes. That's definitely a call to action. I think you can get away with a lot more than we say. I think if you try to stack your call to actions at the at the end or at the beginning, yeah, it's a little overwhelming. If you can, as an example, the Contact Me you can sprinkle in throughout your podcast. Like, Hey, I'd love your feedback. You You know, you're talking about something. And in the middle of the show, just say, I love your feedback.

Jim Collison [00:28:09]:
Send me an email: jimtheaverageguy. Tv. Right? That's a Call to Action, but it's not in the traditional spot. And I think, by the way, you should probably have that, like on your website. We say, you know, you should always have your contact information on your website. There should be, in every single podcast, they, you, they should hear from you how to contact you. I say on the Gallup podcast all the time, everyone, every time, multiple times, You know, if you've got questions, send us an email: coachinggallup.com. We get now so many emails through that email address because I've said it so many times people remember it.

Jim Collison [00:28:40]:
They're like, Oh, how do I Oh, yeah, yeah. It's coachinggallup.com. That's, that's Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said that before. Right? Although I still have people say, How do I contact you? I haven't listened enough. But you could sprinkle those Called to Actions in throughout the show and not stack them up at the end. I think it does get a little overwhelming or people tune out if you're like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do 7 here. Contact me.

Jim Collison [00:29:05]:
Do this. Do that. Like and subscribe, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, if you pack them all together. Be creative about it. I'm not, I'm not against having more than I think the most podcast gurus say, You should just have 1. That, that I would not agree with that. But if you feel like you should just have 1, have 1 have a really, really good one.

Jim Collison [00:29:30]:
Make sure it's really what you want. Because if you're gonna believe that and if you're gonna do that, you got one shot every show to get something that they're gonna respond to. So Doctor, I wouldn't, just, again, it's you. It's your show. You do what you want. So I like to have a 1 or 2 in the beginning, sprinkle a few in throughout the show, and then a couple at the end. I don't think you can have too many unless you just stack up 15 at the end.

Dave Jackson [00:29:56]:
Yeah. That's that's the part that's like That's

Jim Collison [00:29:58]:
a little that's a little obsessive.

Dave Jackson [00:29:59]:
Yeah. So you could like, on the school of podcasting, I was at the very like within the first 30 seconds, I'm like go to school of podcasting.com/listener, you know, or since we're on Ask the Podcast coach asked if you go to school of podcasting.com/ coach. I think I have set up just so I can track where traffic's coming from. Yeah. She says, Doctor says, yes, I really feel like the listing public can handle more than just one. Yeah, I've never thought it was. I never thought it was one call to action per episode. It's always been try to do just one so they can focus on that one thing.

Dave Jackson [00:30:31]:
I'm right now reading Coach Builder from Donald Miller, and he's mister StoryBrand. And he's always about, like, he says, when you go to your website, they should be able within like, you know, a second, figure out what it is very clearly what it is at the top of the top of your page. And I I he's very much if you confuse, you lose. So he's all about kind of making it super clear on what is the one thing and I do ask that with if I'm doing a coaching session, like, what do you what are you trying to get out of this podcast? How are you going to judge your success? Because that should be the last call to action. So if it's, I'm trying to grow my audience, well, then tell them to go to your website.com/follow and follow the show or whatever it is. But in the middle of the show or somewhere else or and if you like, look, I can't just do one call to action, then do what I call the website sandwich. So you go, you know, school of podcasting.com. We've got over 800 episodes out there.

Dave Jackson [00:31:31]:
You've got the newsletter. Of course, you can sign up for the school of podcasting there while you're at it. It's all there. One place, school of podcasting.com. So it's one call to action with a bunch of call to actions in the middle of it. And you're you've got that what I call the the website sandwich. Because sometimes if you just go, yeah, visit our website. They're like, why? Join my newsletter.

Dave Jackson [00:31:52]:
Why? You know? Well, you you might wanna tell them. So you could be like, oh, it's, you know, you get free to it's school of podcasting.com/newsletter. You'll get tips. You'll get insights. You'll get updates, bonus content. It's all there. Schoolofpodcasting.com/newsletter. So it's multiple, you know, that that one thing, but it really does come down to, at times, you have to figure out what is what am I like, what mode am I in? I am am I trying to grow my audience? Am I trying to sell my audience? Am I trying to, you know, get them to answer a question? That whole 9 yards can be kinda tricky.

Dave Jackson [00:32:26]:
Danny says I use 2 calls to action, mid roll of my membership option and post roll of recommended in review. Yep. I'll drop naturally in the show, connect on Twitter, but that's more of a in conversation thing. Yeah. And then I they're having their own conversation here. Apparently, YouTube and Audible now have rules around disclosing AI. Oh, yeah. And that's a new thing in YouTube, that if you're somehow have a, you know, robo voice, you have to disclose that.

Dave Jackson [00:32:55]:
Because I know James Cridland now, if he has a quote that he's pulling from a press release or something like that, he'll have, 11 Labs make the voice for him. And then as he's moving on to the next story, you'll hear that robo voice say, I was made with 11 Labs, and he's off to the next thing. So

Jim Collison [00:33:13]:
So that's such a good way to do it. That's a good way. Do you also see YouTube changed the thumbnail creation section where you can generate 1 via AI. You can upload 1, still upload 1, and, or generate 1 via AI, which is and then there's a, there's now a Test button, where I think for folks who are getting lots and lots of downloads, you can actually test different

Dave Jackson [00:33:38]:
Yeah, AB split testing.

Jim Collison [00:33:39]:
Yeah, that's pretty cool. That's actually a super handy, that's some super handy functionality in there for, for YouTube.

Dave Jackson [00:33:47]:
What's interesting is both TubeBuddy and vinIQ. That was one of their features. And like, hey, you can do AB split testing with a thumbnail now. And I I have TubeBuddy. I do not use it. It's really stupid. It's I'm just letting my money on fire over there. But it's it's always interesting when you see these kind of companies that are adding functionality to something, in this case, YouTube.

Dave Jackson [00:34:12]:
And then YouTube goes, you know, that's a good idea. I think we'll just make that native now.

Jim Collison [00:34:17]:
Like, let's see. Let let me be clear. The AI generated thumbnail is not what you think. It's still the old, it just pulls 3, pulls the back through the 3 examples that you can choose from of 1 of the 3, if you want. So it's not like it's making that thumbnail based on the content. Although, how kind of cool would that be if you could take a transcript? And maybe you can do this somewhere. I haven't tried it yet. Put a transcript in and say, Create the best YouTube thumbnail for me that would, you know, be a YouTube standards, whatever they're looking for, and it would generate that.

Jim Collison [00:34:54]:
Maybe one of those will already do that. I'll have to, I'll have to because I, my thumbnails are terrible. I don't, I don't, I just go with what they find. It's 2 talking heads. I've put the, like you have here, I've put the name of the show above me and the show number down below, so I know that. I stole it right from you. But that's, on YouTube, that's what I use for my thumbnail. We don't get a ton of, I don't get a ton of views on it anyway.

Jim Collison [00:35:19]:
So it's like, I'm not gonna spend a bunch of time making a thumbnail if somebody, you know, we

Dave Jackson [00:35:24]:
Well, see, that's, that's where those those might say the reason those might say the reason you're not getting that many views is because you're not spending that much time on yeah. When I

Jim Collison [00:35:35]:
very true,

Dave Jackson [00:35:36]:
I listened to Bandrew Scott talking about this, and he was saying how if you're getting into YouTube, you better a focus on your title. In fact, he actually played a clip from YouTube saying you need to focus on the title and the thumbnail. And I was like, well, that's why I don't get a lot of views on on YouTube. Jody's asking, so what do you use instead of TubeBuddy? I actually use TubeBuddy. I mean, I have an account. The other one is vidIQ that I hear a lot about. Oh, I forget the guy's name. But there was a video guy I used to follow, Tim, mhmm, something, and he used vidIQ.

Dave Jackson [00:36:10]:
He was kind of a YouTuber that I I trusted what he said. And, yeah, Radio Free Pro Wrestling, up to 3 thumbnails for testing on YouTube. Just tried it out this week. I I apparently, it may be out to everybody because, I know for what the guy just mentioned, Bandrew, Scott was saying that it was they were rolling it out to certain people, but not everyone. So maybe it's out to everyone now. But

Jim Collison [00:36:34]:
I'm gonna call BS on this title thing, just to be honest. Listen, I watch a DIYer who does everything the wrong way. And his thumbnails are the most boring things I've ever seen. And his current title is Cabin in the Woods Precious Metals Score. That's his title.

Dave Jackson [00:36:54]:
That is not a good title. That's No, no.

Jim Collison [00:36:56]:
It's got, it's, this just came out this morning, 2 hours ago. This, this video came out 2 hours ago it already has 15,000 views.

Dave Jackson [00:37:05]:
Jeez!

Jim Collison [00:37:06]:
And he has 400,000 subscribers. So like, I, listen, I know YouTube is saying this. I'm calling BS on it. Like I don't think, I don't think it's just thumbnails, and I don't think it's just titles. I think some of those things are important in what we're doing. But I think there's other things that work in this. And I don't exactly know what they are. But again, I know YouTube is saying that.

Jim Collison [00:37:35]:
I know some very popular, you know, podcasters are talking about that. But man, in the, in some of the ones I watch and some of the ones I look at, and some of the ones, like the movie ones, Dave, the movie stuff on YouTube is terrible like where they're doing movie reviews and stuff, it's terrible. Gigantic views, terrible titles, awful, right. And they're getting 100 of 1000 of views. So YouTube, is it really titles? Is it really the thumbnail? Really? Or are you doing something behind the are you not telling us the truth of what you're really doing?

Dave Jackson [00:38:13]:
Wait, a big company not telling the truth? That can't be.

Jim Collison [00:38:17]:
Rich says 4,000 subs helps. Yeah. So it's not just title, and it's not just a thumbnail it's subscribers. That's what is that what matters? Right? I mean, so are we back to Like and subscribe? Remember how we've been saying recently, everybody said, Oh, it's not about liking and subscribing anymore. It's not about any of those things. It's not liking and subscribing. Stop saying that, because it's not about that. I call BS.

Jim Collison [00:38:43]:
I totally think that's wrong. But that's just me. I'm kidding.

Dave Jackson [00:38:47]:
I would love to know who Patient 0 is that, like because I know for the longest time, everybody's like, like, subscribe, ring the bell. Like, subscribe, ring the bell. Smash the bell even if you want to. Then now I've heard, like, oh, you're not supposed to say that anymore. And I'm like, why not? Like, did it somehow, like and they, like, they'll say it doesn't work even if they say it doesn't work as well and I'm like yeah but if it works some and it takes 2 seconds to say like subscribe and ring the bell by the way when I'm saying subscribe if you watch this on YouTube later and I say subscribe, the little subscribe button gets this little squirrely thing around it. It's a new thing that YouTube added.

Jim Collison [00:39:26]:
That was so Yeah, and it's, and it's still about comments. Like the, the shows that get more comments get more views. Listen, YouTube, don't tell us the wrong things. Like, you know, it's still about liking and subscribing. It's still about comments and audience interaction. Tags kind of matter. But it's still really about likes, subscribes and comments. Still, yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:40:00]:
Yeah. It's and good content always helps. Yeah. You know?

Jim Collison [00:40:04]:
Oh, good. I'm not sure good content matters.

Dave Jackson [00:40:08]:
Well, here's the thing. Now, here's you made a good point. There's a guy you've been filled in. Is his thing when he leaves? It's gonna drive me nuts. What's going on? He starts off his show. What do you how is it going? He calls his audience beautiful bastards. Oh, this is gonna drive me filled in. Anyway, Philip DeFranco.

Dave Jackson [00:40:28]:
There we go. Philip DeFranco to the point if it's a drinking game and you drink every time he says, let me know what you think in the comments, you'd be hammered by the end of the show. Everything he's like blah blah blah and this guy in congress is doing this and now they're doing this and that like you know and what's really interesting is I would love to know what you think about this in the comments. Let me know. Our next story is blah blah blah yada yada. Let me know what you think of them by the end of it. I'm like, yeah, I know. You want to know what I think because I even put I I said if this is a drinking game and we I'm like, it's just and I was like, apparently, somebody came down from the YouTube mountain and said, comments are important, and this guy's all in.

Dave Jackson [00:41:09]:
I was like, jeez.

Jim Collison [00:41:10]:
By the way, if you disagree with me right now, leave a comment below. Would you would you throw a comment down below? Just let me know if you disagree with me or agree with me. Leave a comment below and like and

Dave Jackson [00:41:21]:
subscribe. Yeah. And then Todd the Gator says it's 5050 on the call to action with like and subscribe. Yep. And then Ask Ralph podcast. It's it's the truth that you have to get comments. Perhaps we all just need to start saying outlandish stuff. It is true outlandish stuff.

Dave Jackson [00:41:39]:
There if you wanna find outlandish stuff, Google the phrase Jillian Michaels left California on YouTube because she was on somebody's show and she's like, look. She basically says California is too weird. She's like, look, I'm a woman. I'm a gay woman. I am my mother was Jewish. My father was Arab. She's like, I have black children. You know, I don't know.

Dave Jackson [00:42:06]:
She's like, I checked so many boxes. And she goes, and with that said, it's too crazy and according to Jillian there is a law in California so my source is Jillian Michaels on a podcast that there's a law in California that says a 24 year old male can have sex with a 14 year old boy. And she was like, when that she's like, that's where I drew the line. I'm like, nope. She's like, if you come after my 14 year old boy and you're 24, she goes, and I have a gun, things might be it's like but she's very outlandish in it. And I've had 3 people go, hey, I know you used to do a Jillian Michaels show. Have you seen what she did on YouTube? And so I did an episode about this. It's kind of weird.

Dave Jackson [00:42:50]:
You don't want to just say outlandish stuff. But when you do share an opinion, people either gonna like it and keep listening or they're gonna go like, oh, I can't believe they said that and off you go And you have to be okay that you might have just said something that, you know, half your audience just went away because you said, I don't like key lime pie. They're like, what? You know,

Jim Collison [00:43:12]:
so it's great. Well, I also think you got to start, this is a lot of the YouTubers I watch, they bring in the negative comments from previous videos and talk about them. And then, of course, people start thinking, Oh, if I leave a comment like that, I'll get my name. It's crazy how that kind of stuff excites people to have their name mentioned, you know, and you, when you throw like, when we bring comments in. By the way, the best way to get your comments into us, join us live on Saturday mornings, 9:30 CST, 10:30 Eastern at askthepodcastcoach.com/life. So the, but they look at those, you know, they, they look at that and you kind of think for you, Dave, for you and I, if we really wanted to grow the audience beyond what we currently do, and we wanted to grow it on YouTube, we would probably need to work really, really hard that instead of these comments going to chat, which doesn't serve us any purpose, they would be going down into the comments below. And then we would be wanting to generate some controversy in there. And when you do that, you're gonna take the trolls with you on that.

Jim Collison [00:44:21]:
You're gonna get some really nasty comments. This is the bane of every YouTuber I've watched is their nasty comments. And everybody says, Oh, I got thick skin, until you really start getting some zingers. And then, like, people get mad. I mean, they take personal shots at you. They take personal shots at your family. They start saying creepy things. They start showing up in the town you live in.

Jim Collison [00:44:45]:
This is the, this is what you, if this is the fame that you want. If you, if you want this kind of stuff, this is what you're in for. And so, you know, you got to be really, really careful what you wish for in that and then thinking, Well, yeah, I want to be a giant YouTuber. Well, Okay, you better start getting ready to protect yourself in some of these things. And you thick skin doesn't do it. I mean, because people come right after you. And it's depressing. It is depressing.

Dave Jackson [00:45:13]:
Well, and the, the fun part is, is if you're remotely vulnerable in your video, you've just told people here's where here's here's the soft part of my body that you can really sink an arrow in and just nail me. Jody says, but I love key lime pie. That was just an example. Key lime pie is delicious. I would have to say coconut. I'm not a huge coconut fan of of stuff. I know. I've just Coconut is terrible.

Dave Jackson [00:45:38]:
It's it's all the coconut people are now are tuning out, Jim. We've lost the coconut audience.

Jim Collison [00:45:42]:
If you don't like if you like coconut, just let me know down in the comments below.

Dave Jackson [00:45:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. Danny says he's waiting for someone to send their own thing to us for stupid stuff in podcasting segment. Yes. If you haven't checked out in and around podcasting.com, that's one of my favorite segments. Mark was nice enough because they did one where and I used it. That that was the whole point. In fact, that's actually one of the things that inspired it is when people share their opinion, if you share that opinion, there's a part of you that's like amen brother, preach on sister.

Dave Jackson [00:46:18]:
And so I was listening to In and Around podcasting and they did this kind of long segment of people at the podcast show. And some of, like, I loved when Ariel Nissenblatt said, people think I'm gonna grow my audio podcast by starting YouTube not realizing that you then have to promote YouTube so the YouTube will then promote your audio. You know, it's like you keep adding things that then need promotion to grow to the thing so you're going wide instead of deep. And I was like, oh, that is such a cool way of saying that. I was like, it's another so, yeah, when you voice your opinion, you know, that's it. Meanwhile, we have to kind of take a turn here from what are you laughing at, Jim, before I I

Jim Collison [00:47:00]:
You got you canceled that's Jeff said that Dave canceled coconut, and then Danny no, then Todd Decater said, Coconut's my trigger word. I love again, if you're, if you're an activist around coconuts, leave your comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Dave Jackson [00:47:18]:
Yes. We would love to that's the other one. I'd love to hear from you. I hear that a lot.

Jim Collison [00:47:22]:
And when I say your coconuts, I don't mean anything by that. Anything by that.

Dave Jackson [00:47:27]:
Yeah. We're not kicking anybody in the coconuts. Right. Exactly. Anthony wants to know, hey, can you suggest a WordPress theme that would be suitable for a podcast? Yes. It's called pod page. No. I'll give you a real answer here in a second.

Dave Jackson [00:47:41]:
There are so many themes available for WordPress, but I'd like to know what makes a website theme suitable for a podcast versus anything else. It is like I'll give you an example. I see so many themes like a magazine theme or a restaurant theme and it just you kind of have to go well it it kind of fits a

Jim Collison [00:48:00]:
little bit it's if you jam it

Dave Jackson [00:48:03]:
okay so that's usually but second line themes has if you go to I think it's, support this show.com/secondline, they have themes for that. And then if you're using Elementor, they have some Elementor stuff. But I'm here to tell you if you're building your website and I say this not because they're an affiliate even though it is literally every website I have right now except the school of podcasting and if the school of podcasting didn't have 19 years of caca behind it, it'd be on podpage 2. PodPage is the bomb. I love PodPage. It's really I was playing with it if you just to show you here real quick. This is gonna sound like a humble brag, but I'm playing with like what if I really wanted to customize this? So I'm reading Don Miller's book And first, I found out that it always puts the name of your show at the top. Well, you can go into your home page and say wait a minute.

Dave Jackson [00:49:03]:
I want people to know what I am the minute they show up. So I changed it from your podcast consultant to Dave Jackson podcast consultant. Then I changed the description of the show to what the heck you're looking at. Dave Jackson is an award winning Hall of Fame podcast consultant. And then I found out you can go in. There's a custom area on the home page, and so I just threw in a table and pretended it was, you know, 2,008. And I made this cute little table, which for the record is ugly. I realized that gray is not working the way I thought it was gonna work, but just playing with it.

Dave Jackson [00:49:35]:
And so I've got here here's what I offered. Do you wanna join the school of podcasting? And that's not a link, and it's supposed to be. Oh, it is a link. It just doesn't give you the little and then here's my, you know, oh my gosh. If you don't hire Dave, the world's gonna come to an end section. And then here's how you're gonna benefit. And then down here, hey, would you like to work with me? And then all the podcasting stuff. And if I wanted to, I could even remove this stuff.

Dave Jackson [00:49:58]:
And so I'm finding out that PodPage is a little more customizable than I thought. And so if you're really want an easy website the other thing is if you like the school of podcasting I spend, it's $200 a year on Wordfence because the good news about WordPress is everybody's using it. The bad news is if you wanna cause some havoc, let's go over let's go after the the thing that everybody's using. And so yeah. But, anyway, second line themes. Let me see if I go to support the show slash second line. Did I guess right? And the survey says I did. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:50:40]:
So this is they have a couple themes made for WordPress or for yeah. Yeah. They made a theme for WordPress. They made a theme for podcasters. And I was using, if I remember right, Dixie. And then they just have some built in stuff for especially with episodes and things like that. So that is that would be my WordPress theme. But thank you for the question.

Dave Jackson [00:51:02]:
Jim, what are you using? I think you're, I know Home Gadget Geeks is on pod page. Do you know what theme? It's weird, man. I used to

Jim Collison [00:51:10]:
You don't.

Dave Jackson [00:51:11]:
I'm officially pretty rusty on WordPress. I went to do some things in it and I was like, man, it's been so long since I've, you know I

Jim Collison [00:51:18]:
think it's at the bottom of my site. Maybe not. Yeah, I can't remember. That's been one of those that I, I found the theme I wanted. I love it. I put it in. I used the parent child thing to make it, to make it work and to update it. I don't mess with it that much.

Jim Collison [00:51:40]:
I put some, I put some ads in it at one point, you know, allowed some Google Ads to show up and kind of measured that. But I kind of set it and forget it. Podpage is really where, you know, so you go to theaverageguy. Tv that's my site. It's got Home Gadget Geeks there as well as everything else. I really use PodPage just as a homegadgetteeks.com landing page for folks who get there. It by far is the best experience I know on mobile to find, you know, like, for people to subscribe on. All the links are there, you know, all the buttons to subscribe in the various places are there.

Jim Collison [00:52:14]:
And they, they do a really great job of that. And so there's, you know, you can get the list from there, sign up for updates, which I don't do enough of. Some of those kinds of things And

Dave Jackson [00:52:25]:
you went dark mode. Last time I was here, it

Jim Collison [00:52:27]:
was weird. Yeah, yeah. I like dark. I like dark.

Dave Jackson [00:52:30]:
You've gone to the dark side.

Jim Collison [00:52:32]:
I have gone to the dark side. But you see the links there over onto the right? As you were scrolling down there, it says, you know, Listen on. And, and a PodPage does this so, so well. It's so easy to set up. So and it's easy to send people. You know, when I say the average guy. Tv, that doesn't set in as well as homegadgettekes.com. That's just the homegadgettekes.com just, but I didn't want to go, I didn't want to change my whole website to that.

Jim Collison [00:52:57]:
So I just set that up on PodPage, and I pay the $10 a month or whatever, it's 11, whatever it is. And then, yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:53:05]:
I asked Brendan because here I've just got it set to just show the buttons of the different places you could do this. And I said, I would love let me see if I have it on what would be another one? Best podcasting gear is a website I don't really do. That one has it at the top. But some of these, you can have big buttons, and you can I said it'd be great if I could have the big buttons, and I think it's down here? Yeah. It's kinda like these, but they're bigger. I said it'd be awesome if I could have Apple, Spotify, and then have a button that says other, which would then because I have all of these. And if these are at the the bottom of your, like, at the top of the page, it can take up a fair amount of your your space. And, of course, now I can't find any of my site.

Dave Jackson [00:53:53]:
I think I've done this. I've taken it off most of my sites, but I said it'd be cool if you got 2 big buttons and an other button. Because if you have pod page, if you go to whatever your website is slash follow, it's there's all your your buttons that you have currently added. And if you add, you know, all the ones that are available, it's a giant list. And I don't want those on the front page because people have to scroll a mile and a half to get down to, you know, the actual meat and potatoes of content. And I threw that at Brendan, and he's like, oh, it's interesting. We're actually working on something already like that. And I was like, that's why I like BudPage.

Dave Jackson [00:54:31]:
So yeah. So and speaking of that, so since we've now done a commercial for BudPage, use the use the link try PodPage. That's my affiliate link. If you wanna learn PodPage, go to learn podpage dot com. And and I guess at this point, since we're already doing it already

Jim Collison [00:54:46]:
That's how you add a CTA into your show, and it's not a CTA. Right? That's how you get it done. And listen, we're both, we're both avid PodPage fans. I mean, we, we both use it. I think they're doing great stuff. They make it easy over there. So it makes it easy for us to do that. But that gets, that's how it gets added in.

Dave Jackson [00:55:06]:
Yeah, it's fun. And I just realized, this is one of those here's the joy of doing live: I'm going to go to a screen that's not ready because I didn't rewind this page. We're at the last page already. But speaking of PodPage, another way you can support the show besides using my PodPage link is to go to ask the podcast coach.com/awesome. You can be an awesome supporter, and this show is brought to you by the school of podcasting.com where you get step by step courses. You get unlimited. That is not a typo. Coaching and a really awesome community.

Dave Jackson [00:55:39]:
Use the coupon code coach when you sign up. And don't forget that comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. And we just did a whole bunch on pod page. But, yep, if you're at ask the podcast coach. Yep. You're looking at pod page and I use Ecamm right now for my live streaming. I'm hearing a lot about Riverside. I might have to sign up just to play.

Dave Jackson [00:55:58]:
And we'll talk about what's the other one we talked about? The the super easy one if you're on a PC? StreamYard. We'll talk about StreamYard just a second. Some some sad news about StreamYard here. But if you need more Jim Coulson and if you wanna go check out HomeGadget Geeks, you can go to the average guy dot tv or you can go to home gadget geeks.com. Should I change these GM to home gadgetgeeks.com in the future? No.

Jim Collison [00:56:20]:
That's fine. You can sleep.

Dave Jackson [00:56:22]:
Okay. That's fine. And it's time to find our future future. So let me share the screen. Who will it be? Will it be Felix over at Latin Podcast Awards? There's Jody Kringle. She's in the chat room too. Ed is there from Sonic Cupcake. It could be anyone.

Dave Jackson [00:56:37]:
John Mutz, Craig over at AI Goes TO College. We'll find out as we spin the wheel, and it's going to land on Glenn the Geek Hiebert. You gotta love Glenn. If you like horsies

Jim Collison [00:56:53]:
Don't be boring.

Dave Jackson [00:56:54]:
That's it. I thought I had him in here. I maybe I don't. Yes. I do. Glenn, what's your advice to new podcasters?

Jim Collison [00:57:01]:
Don't be boring.

Dave Jackson [00:57:02]:
Jim, that's actually pretty good.

Jim Collison [00:57:04]:
Thank you. I've been working on it for a while.

Dave Jackson [00:57:08]:
So find him over at horseradionetwork.com. And, hey, let's just talk about Dan again. There we go.

Jim Collison [00:57:15]:
I was afraid he's gonna get mad at me when I when I do that.

Dave Jackson [00:57:18]:
Glenn mad. No. Okay. Alright.

Jim Collison [00:57:22]:
Glenn, don't be mad at me.

Dave Jackson [00:57:23]:
Yeah. The fun part is I've lost. There it is. I'm like, I lost my screen. Yes. So if this show has saved you time, saved you money, saved you a headache, or if it kept you educated or entertained, you can be an awesome supporter and go to ask the podcast coach.com/awesome. And while we are sharing my screen, let me go to StreamYard has been gutted. And they were bought by a company.

Dave Jackson [00:57:49]:
The owners wanted to buy it back, and they couldn't. And so this is from LinkedIn. Gergeli? Is that his name? Gergeli.

Jim Collison [00:58:01]:
You wanna correct us?

Dave Jackson [00:58:02]:
Oh, did I not? Is this not sharing the screen?

Jim Collison [00:58:06]:
No. Well, I don't see us. Oh, yeah, you're fine there.

Dave Jackson [00:58:09]:
JOE Okay. Keep going. Just to read this, in in unfortunate news, most Hopin and StreamYard staff are being let go after the company was sold. In in fortunate news, you can hire them. Here are their details. Here's a list with 40 plus software engineers, senior and staff, as well as engineering managers, product managers, designers, and other tech folks who all worked at Hopin slash StreamYard. Is it Hopin or Hopin? Do we know?

Jim Collison [00:58:37]:
Hopin. Hopin. Hopin. Hopin. Yeah. It's Hopin.

Dave Jackson [00:58:39]:
Yep. From all that I heard, the company had a high hiring bar. StreamYard was a profitable product ran by a pretty lean and motivated team. Here's the list of former staff open to being contacted for relevant positions. Feel free to reshare. So it just goes through this list, and he goes to this context on the Hopin StreamYard split and mentions Hopin acquired the already profitable StreamYard service for 250,000,000 in 2021 after raising about 1,000,000,000 in funding. This is back when stupid money was flying around. Hopin sold off its core events business in 2023 for 50,000,000.

Dave Jackson [00:59:17]:
StreamYard kept operating more or less standalone with Hopin and kept growing in revenue and staying profitable. As the rest of Hopin was sold to mobile app developer bending spoons. Streamyard was the most valuable asset and likely what drove the likely large payment bending spoons must have made. Hopin has 2 additional products on on the sale has wait. Hopin has 2 additional products on the sale. Streamable, also an acquisition and community product in beta called Superwave. But apparently, StreamYard has been gutted, which is just sad, because that's

Jim Collison [00:59:53]:
Well, let's, hold on. Let's make sure we define that so people don't freak out when you say gutted. The software still operates

Dave Jackson [01:00:00]:
the

Jim Collison [01:00:00]:
way it has before. The, the, the, most of their development staff, most of the folks who knew the platform, it's a fairly mature platform and will continue to be that way for the next couple years. This is probably a signal, though, for those of us and I use StreamYard we use it at work as well to I should start looking. Right? Now, it doesn't mean I need to move right away. But chances are, you know, we saw this with services like LogMeIn and LastPass. Like they got, they get bought by these giant investment firms. Basically, they're not software people. They're buying these things as an investment, and then they're gonna, either they're gonna split them up and sell the separate parts of it, or they're gonna take the IP and license that to someone else or something along those lines.

Jim Collison [01:00:47]:
Right? And so this is a big move. I mean, I am sure at this point, we're gonna see what will most likely happen or what could happen is we'll see, they, they, so they just cut the most expensive part of a company is people. Right? So they just cut all those people out. Right? And now they're gonna probably raise prices. So don't be surprised, StreamYard friends, if all of us who are on the $10 plan, I'm sure that's gonna sunset here at some point, and it's gonna go to $25.50. And they're gonna make it, they're gonna go the route of Evernote, where it's, it is like, Hey, what you, if you were an Evernote person, the same thing is gonna happen to StreamYard. So just, just get ready for it. You mentioned Riverside.

Jim Collison [01:01:31]:
I just got contacted by Riverside in a, in a spam like email that was like, Hey, we understand that you're a podcaster, and we'd like to talk to you about Riverside. I think it was Riverside. And I think some of those companies that do this E Cam may be one of those who want to do it as well. I think they're gonna smell blood in the water. And they're gonna go hard and heavy after StreamYard users. Because guys, the days of the, of whatever was great about StreamYard, they're probably, they're gonna probably come to a close. Still working today. I just used it yesterday for, for a podcast.

Jim Collison [01:02:07]:
It still works just fine. So don't, don't hear us say that. But you're gonna want to watch the news, for sure. And it's gonna get, they're gonna try to get and squeeze every ounce of value out of this thing. They paid a lot of money for it. And so they're gonna, they're gonna squeeze, they're gonna try and squeeze that back out. They're gonna squeeze it out of you if you're a StreamYard person. So just get ready.

Dave Jackson [01:02:31]:
Craig says bending spoons also messed up Evernote, which is why I'm now on Notejoy because they were gonna double my price.

Jim Collison [01:02:38]:
They don't buy them to fix them. They buy them the reason they let the staff go is because they probably have a minimal support staff now. They're not gonna make a single update to this thing. Like they're, they're Dreamyard is, is exactly like it's gonna be for the next, for the unless they sell it off or whatever, right? But it's exactly the way it's gonna be, which is, it's a good product. I really like it. I, it could never change and I could use it for the next 10 years. Right? Yeah. But, but certainly, yeah, you're getting get ready.

Dave Jackson [01:03:08]:
So Jody says, What's the alternative? If you're on a Mac, Ecamm, Chris Nesse says evmux, evmux. I've never heard of it, but I'll be checking it out. He says it's very similar on how it works and does the same things. So yeah. And And it's also comparable in pricing. And then Craig from AI Goes TO College, Riverside added some sort of live streaming. Yeah. I heard about it.

Dave Jackson [01:03:35]:
They were on Pod News Weekly, and that's when I was like, oh, I might have to try Riverside again because the last time I tried it was years ago. And it sounds like you can even stream in HD now, which doesn't sound like a great idea, but okay. So it'll be interesting to to see it. But I've never heard of is it just Evmux? What a weird name. Probably for multiple is it evmux.com? Yes. It is. The best way to live stream and record stunning talk shows, and their pricing is $19 a month. I'm assuming that's and I hate when they do that.

Dave Jackson [01:04:14]:
$25 a month if you're paying monthly. Everything is free. No powered by Evmux logo, full pro scene builder, logo backgrounds and overlays, slideshow, prerecorded streams up to 2 hours, unlimited streams, multistream up to 4 destinations, custom RTMP, record your content, 20 gigabytes of storage, 2 seats, meaning with your team members. Okay. And it transcribes everything. And then which is weird because this is the free version. And the free version lets you do what's where's the limit? Up to 12 on screen participants. Okay.

Dave Jackson [01:04:54]:
This is probably one of those where the basic version is all the free stuff. So that answers one of my questions. You can stream at 10.80 2 destinations for free. Banners, I'm assuming a banner is a display called actions and highlighted comments. Yep. So they do that. You can do tickers, which are great fun. Integrated chats from any platform.

Dave Jackson [01:05:18]:
Alright. We might have to kick the tires on this, Jim. I'm trying to see what the what's the streaming limit. Stream up to 2 hours each live, total 30 hours monthly. Alright. So maybe next week, we'll we'll kick the tires on evmux. So interesting. It's always weird how people the different kind of vibes.

Dave Jackson [01:05:38]:
Like, this doesn't have quite the Fisher Price look to it, but the little alright. Does it work? Web based livestream.

Jim Collison [01:05:50]:
Well, Well,

Dave Jackson [01:05:50]:
here's the fun thing I have to look at, of course, when I come down here, there is no affiliate program. What a bummer. Oh. But, yeah, but I'm with you, Jim. It's it's not the end of StreamYard, so you don't have to jump yet. But like when what what did we get?

Jim Collison [01:06:07]:
Google Hangouts. We used Google Hangouts for a

Dave Jackson [01:06:10]:
lot of years. And then we got a notice on that, that that was going away. We started looking, you know. So it's You

Jim Collison [01:06:17]:
should start doing your homework. I would start doing my homework. I'm going to start doing my homework now. We use a platform called Zuddle, Z u d d l, for our conference. They're more of a conference platform. Their live streaming looks amazingly like StreamYard. Like, I was, I logged in my friends who we used XUDL for our last conference, and I had one of the engineers log in to StreamYard, and he goes, Oh, my gosh, this, this is exactly like Xuttle. I'm like, Well, they may be sharing technologies, or there may be some things that were white labeled there.

Jim Collison [01:06:51]:
You never really know. But they come at it from a more conference perspective. So again, we'll have to start looking, like you said, I may need to start looking and figuring out like, Okay, where are we going? I won't move until it's, I mean, until it's imminent. It just works. Or the pricing gets unrealistic. One of those

Dave Jackson [01:07:10]:
2. Yeah. And Doctor. Says it's not always a bad thing if people get acquired, because Audacity has made some really great strides since they got acquired. I still don't understand why you would acquire a free program. That's the one that my Marketing. I guess.

Jim Collison [01:07:26]:
Lists people. You know, you get a free program. You make people log in. You get email addresses. You can market other things to them. It's a loss leader in some cases. That is why. Listen, on the StreamYard side of things, this could go down the route of, if they don't handle the PR on this thing properly, it may start to slide fast.

Jim Collison [01:07:45]:
And if they start losing subscribers fast, well, that's what they're banking on here. They're not, they, they, they didn't want to sell it back to the founders. They, they want to, they want to make money on subscriptions. If subscriptions slide, they may be forced. They're an investment company. They're not, they're not into the love, the love of podcasting. They're in the love of money. That's why they do this thing.

Jim Collison [01:08:09]:
So we may see, you could still see some this is why I would be careful about moving we could still see some things where if subscriptions, people drop off of its subscription scribe, they may be forced to sell it back to Dan and Gage or whoever would buy it. Those were the original founders. And it may it may get it may get rescued. So just watch. Don't do it yet. Just watch.

Dave Jackson [01:08:31]:
Well, Volley was an app I I now use again, but it went out of business because they made their free tier too good so that they when they rolled it out, they had all these beta people and they're like, alright, here's the paid version. And we all went, yeah, I don't need any of those features. And they ended up, you know, they ran out of this is back around covid and, you know, they just ran out of VC money and then somehow they found another VC and restructured it. And it was funny because I really couldn't find something to replace. And I found a couple of different services that kind of worked, but not really. And so the minute they came back, I'm like, how can I give you money? I'm like, I do not want you to to go away. So To Doctor.

Jim Collison [01:09:16]:
To Doctor. Comment in chat, Doctor, this acquisition is not a good thing for, for streaming artists. The fact that they cut the core engineering staff is a direct signal that they have stopped development. This is not an Audacity thing with, with StreamYard. Let's just be really, really clear. They're not gonna improve StreamYard. It's about as good as it's gonna get at this point. And to be honest, it is about as good as it's gonna get.

Jim Collison [01:09:41]:
There's not a lot more things in there. The, the stuff they were doing to it was pretty minor. Now they could have done some things, they were trying to make it more of a webinar platform, and there were some things going on to develop the webinar side of things with it, which are different than the webcast side or the podcast. Doctor, they're not this is not a good, this is not a good sign for StreamYard. So I'd love to spin it some, into some kind of positive way. This is a pure acquisition to strip it, sell it and take the subscription revenues that are coming in to pay back some investors. I hope they've done their math on this. I, this could go horribly wrong for them.

Jim Collison [01:10:23]:
And, and so we'll have to see, you know, we'll have to see how this goes over the next 6 months. This is one of those things by the end of the year we'll know, I think, how it's, how it's doing or whether it's gone or not.

Dave Jackson [01:10:36]:
And it may be great for, like you said, a while, but then all of a sudden, StreamYard is gonna come out, Ecamm is gonna come out, you know, Evoob Mux, whatever that thing is, is coming out with some features and it won't make sense anymore. Like StreamYard is not bad. Just these do more and Streamyard is kind of stuck in 2024. So we'll see. But it's it's a bummer when you hear, you know, 40 people getting whacked. I'm like, ouch. So that hurts.

Jim Collison [01:11:06]:
It'd be great if the script would make a run at streaming. Like, and then it would, you would all, it would all be in one place. I mean, how, how cool would it be for some of those things to take on some, at this point, like it's a difficult, it's a really difficult pill to swallow if you're not doing it, to just decide, Hey, I'm gonna get into the streaming market. Because it's, that market's been, I mean, folks have been at it for a long time. You got to almost buy somebody and integrate them in, you know, to make it work. If you haven't been doing it up till this point, the, the ramp up to get there is pretty steep. And, and only a company like Apple could probably come along and say, Hey, we're gonna do live streaming now, and actually have a, have a chance of success. So it'd be interesting to see how it goes.

Jim Collison [01:11:52]:
Keep your eyes, keep your eyes peeled for you. And as Ralph says, he'd love it if the, if you could stream out a script. It would make sense. It would make a lot of sense to, for a platform like that.

Dave Jackson [01:12:04]:
Yeah, Jeff sees up against the same problem I have. He says, I know they're a sponsor for his show. Ecamm is but I love Ecamm. It's always trying to improve like the recent Zoom integration, but it's going to be an arms race with Riverside. And, yeah, that's one of the bad things. It's like I mean, for the longest time, I said, you know, Lipson is one of the best media hosts, and then I started working there. And people like, will you just say that because you're working there? And I'm like, no. I'm like, go back and listen.

Dave Jackson [01:12:27]:
I'm I'm a big fan. You know? Jeff says, I think Adobe should buy Descript. They already they've already copied some of Descript's features. Yeah. But I well, yeah, because I'm already paying a monthly fee to Descript. So interesting. I did see something I wanted to share. This was, Rob Walsh has shared it.

Dave Jackson [01:12:46]:
I forget who the original poster was, but it was it just fits podcasting so well. We do this not because it's easy, but because we thought it would be easy. Yep. And I was like, that is so true. We're all like, oh, just talking to a microphone. No big deal. You know? So, yeah. Dan says, do we want everything in one place? Software like that is never as good as specialized podcast for something.

Dave Jackson [01:13:15]:
Yeah, I'm with you. They're all in one stuff, right? The Kajabi's of the world, the Podia, all even the thing I'm using now is Xiddler. I'm like, you know I kind of like like Convertkit has some really cool drag and drop easy stuff for their email list. And I was like, okay, you know, but then you get into these other things. It's like like Podia just added email to their thing. And I'm like, you know? And then the other thing is if it goes down, then you're kind of screwed, you know? Yeah. Jody says that you don't want all your eggs in one basket. So

Jim Collison [01:13:48]:
Unless you really like eggs and you need a bunch of Unless

Dave Jackson [01:13:50]:
you like eggs. Yeah. That's it.

Jim Collison [01:13:52]:
You know?

Dave Jackson [01:13:53]:
Well, one other thing I I started I I joined a Christian podcaster Facebook group, and I I'm going to say a blanket statement to all my Christian buddies in podcasting. You're overthinking it like you're just everybody over there. And I get it because they're, you know, again, if I paint with a very wide brush, some Christians are a little behind on the technology world, and so they're finally getting in. But the things like here, here's one. Hi, everyone. I'm struggling for ideas on growth as I seem to be going the other way with listens. What have people done to improve their visibility? This isn't the one I thought it was, but we'll we'll take this question. What people have done? What have people done to improve their visibility? Would really appreciate some advice that would would that wouldn't cost money as a madad of 2 and can barely afford the pot bean.

Dave Jackson [01:14:49]:
So here's here's my question, Jim. Back there was a presidential race. I don't remember what it might have been a Clinton thing. I don't know. But somebody said it's the economy, stupid. Like, like, why is this and that? And so when I see Is it

Jim Collison [01:15:04]:
Ross Perot? Was that

Dave Jackson [01:15:04]:
Ross Perot? Was. Yeah. Ross Perot. Yeah. The penguin of of presidential races. Now look at here. That's as dumb as a cow in a mud shed. Like, what's a mud shed? Yeah.

Jim Collison [01:15:18]:
Yeah. Imagine if he'd had PowerPoint. Like, imagine Ross Perot with PowerPoint.

Dave Jackson [01:15:23]:
President Perot, yes. I would That's all I needed was PowerPoint. But here's my question. Is it is it too simplistic when somebody says my show isn't growing to say it's your content? And I guess here's the problem. The word grow. Grow means many things to many people.

Jim Collison [01:15:45]:
Yeah. Isn't everything your content? I mean, it doesn't really just what else can it be? Like, that's all you have out there. I mean, there is an element of really good marketing. Really good marketing can cover really bad content, right? But eventually, it kind of it or your content has not found your audience. And I love the, I want to grow my show 10 fold, but I don't want to pay any money. And like, Well, you're gonna pay it in time or effort or dollars. If you're gonna find your audience, you're gonna have to find some ways to get that done, you know. And if you're a super listen, religious podcasts, leave your comments below.

Jim Collison [01:16:29]:
Religious podcasts are a niche, right? They're a niche of a niche of a niche in a lot of cases. You're, if you're expecting to do this as outreach, or you're hoping, you know, you've got to go the, if you're gonna do it, you got to go the Joel Osteen route and be is that the right name? Osteen? Did I get that right? Joel Osteen? And just be super generic and be happy and be very positive and be like, you got to get out of the niche if you're gonna expect the big numbers. And so I don't know. I, it is, it is a little bit unrealistic. I don't want to spend, I want to be, I want to be popular Okay, I'm, I'm making up voices there. I want to be popular, but I don't want to spend any money, and I, and I don't want to do anything. Well, that's not the way just start a lemonade stand on the corner, if that's what you want to do. You got to spend some money.

Jim Collison [01:17:20]:
You got to get put some effort in to find your audience.

Dave Jackson [01:17:22]:
Yeah. And actually, I thought you had it right. I thought it was Olsteen. It's Osteen. There's no L. Osteen. Okay. No L.

Dave Jackson [01:17:29]:
Happy Jesus, man. Just just

Jim Collison [01:17:32]:
He's a good guy.

Dave Jackson [01:17:34]:
I saw him by, man. It's amazing guy. And he's he's he's it's interesting because he still has his his toe. Actually, he's got a foot in the Christian thing, but he also he's he's he's not beating you over the head with stuff. So if you he kind of is self help as well. It's he's he's kind of straddle in both those kind of genres. So yeah. And Ralph says, hey, watch that, buddy.

Dave Jackson [01:17:57]:
There's a lot of Christians. Well, yeah. See, this is where Jim and I can both go. We went to church. We know what we're talking about.

Jim Collison [01:18:03]:
It's a niche. It is. It's a niche.

Dave Jackson [01:18:05]:
But I think it it rely I just meant not so much just for Christians, but any podcast. If it's not if it's going backwards, as this person said, it's your content. I would think unless you have a unless you don't have a website, your audio is horrible, like horrible, horrible. You never get to the point. You're talking about, you know, snuff films 1 week and, you know, unique snow globes the next. Trying to think of things that are just, like, way out of

Jim Collison [01:18:36]:
I always get a little concerned when you start reaching. Yeah. It's like I do.

Dave Jackson [01:18:41]:
It's gonna go out.

Jim Collison [01:18:42]:
Say something offensive at this point.

Dave Jackson [01:18:45]:
Yeah. So you you kinda have to have a a little bit it's like with muse. I always say put podcasting with music. So if somebody said, oh, Dave, I'm doing a blues podcast. I'd be like, great, but I still might not like it because if you're gonna pay, like, orange lemon peel Johnson from 1920, and it's like it's super staticky. And it's like, no. I'm not listening to that. I understand it's this guy was a forefather of my but I'm just not.

Dave Jackson [01:19:24]:
No. I'm not listening to that.

Jim Collison [01:19:25]:
You did that pretty well. That's a good static fifties.

Dave Jackson [01:19:30]:
Dude, when I hear, Robert Johnson, right, he's the guy that I went down in the garage. It's litigated. That's what it sounds like. And I was like, okay. I get it that this eventually inspired Eric Clapton. I'm just saying I I'm not listening to that. I can't no. So, yeah.

Dave Jackson [01:19:46]:
And Ralph says, Yeah, you got to spend money some time to make money.

Jim Collison [01:19:50]:
You do. Yeah. In almost all cases, you do. Yeah. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you do get lucky. But that's a pretty, it's a pretty unusual circumstance. You know, you think of like Rebecca Black.

Jim Collison [01:20:02]:
That's a, maybe a perfect example of this. A Rebecca Black with Fridays. We're saying, What's that the name of the song? Fridays, Fridays.

Dave Jackson [01:20:09]:
I want

Jim Collison [01:20:09]:
to get down on Fridays, right? It shouldn't have been popular. It, she didn't do anything to make it popular. It just did. It just did, right? And it, and it created memes and genres of its own. And poor Rebecca, right, and a lot of can we call her Becky?

Dave Jackson [01:20:28]:
Poor Becky,

Jim Collison [01:20:29]:
in this case, right? That happens, the odds, you might have better odds of winning the lottery than those kinds of things happening. And I think that's a lot of people are thinking, they take a lottery mentality. They're like, If I can just get lucky enough to have this well, maybe, but probably not. So the rest of us just got to do a ton of practice and a ton of work and make it and be faithful and answer your listeners' emails and get out there and beat the street and do some, do some things to promote yourself and buy some promotion if you can and do some nice things for people. Like just, just, just keep doing. Like just keep doing, keep doing stuff. And, and, and maybe some of it will go most of the time, no. Listen, every and I'm gonna make this stat up, and I should know the stat.

Jim Collison [01:21:19]:
But I think for every 100 businesses that start, after 5 years, one of them is still in business. Something like that. It's, the chat room will probably have the stat. It's pretty low. When you're starting a podcast, you're starting a business. And chances are, we listen, you can do a lot of podcasts for almost nothing. Businesses take money so they fail. But you just, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson [01:21:42]:
Yeah. Craig says, It's great to be lucky, but it's a mistake to count on it. Randy says Justin Bieber was found on YouTube and now we have to suffer eternity. Yeah, it's

Jim Collison [01:21:52]:
the Biebs.

Dave Jackson [01:21:53]:
You can't I can't play even 10 seconds of a song because this is on YouTube, right?

Jim Collison [01:22:00]:
Yeah. You would not wanna do that.

Dave Jackson [01:22:01]:
Yeah. I'm not gonna okay. Cause I found Crossroads by, by and I'm like, listen.

Jim Collison [01:22:06]:
The Backstreet Boys and NSYNC, those were created, those were created bands that had tons of money put behind them and marketing to be popular. Right?

Dave Jackson [01:22:21]:
And a very target audience. Young girls, man.

Jim Collison [01:22:25]:
No, no, right, right on. But, but, but in sync didn't start for free. The Backstreet Boys didn't start for free. They were manufactured bands, right, that, that somebody in LA or whatever said, Hey, let's put these 5 guys together. And then they spent a ton of money in the early days to get them marketed, to get them out there. And they were in and part of the system. That's another way, you know, that we see some podcasts that are coming out that way, where it's like, Hey, let's get a, let's get a person or let's create something. Then we're going to put a ton of money behind marketing, and they're gonna, they're gonna, we're gonna do all the things.

Jim Collison [01:23:05]:
By the way, those guys, those 5 guys in both bands, except for 1, have almost made no money. Like they didn't

Dave Jackson [01:23:15]:
Oh, from the band, probably. Yeah.

Jim Collison [01:23:17]:
They were on the wrong end of the contract. Right?

Dave Jackson [01:23:20]:
Yeah. You

Jim Collison [01:23:20]:
know, I think Timberlake is the only one who really came out of that thing.

Dave Jackson [01:23:25]:
Joe Fatone or something, of course, he made money from Dancing with the Stars, and he's done a few things on yeah. He's not he doesn't have the mansion on the hill, but he's he's done some stage acting, but I couldn't, you know, call me crazy, but I can't name all the Backstreet Boys. One of them isn't Donnie Wahlberg of Backstreet Boys. He went on to do acting in What? Blue? I don't know.

Jim Collison [01:23:48]:
I don't know.

Dave Jackson [01:23:49]:
There was a Wahlberg in one of those groups that went on to do acting. So

Jim Collison [01:23:54]:
Yeah. Those good old manufactured bands. But wasn't wasn't there some weren't the Eagles kind of pulled together that way? Right?

Dave Jackson [01:24:03]:
They were Linda Ronstadt's backup band. Yeah. Yeah. But all but all those guys,

Jim Collison [01:24:07]:
I think, weren't they kind of pulled together for a couple years and then they hated each other?

Dave Jackson [01:24:12]:
No. Yeah. I mean, they brought in Joe Walsh after he was in the James gang. And yeah. So it's a lot of it is luck. You can't count on it like Craig says, but some of it's luck.

Jim Collison [01:24:24]:
You don't wanna count. Some of it's money. Some of it's money. Like, if you can't, if you don't have luck, you have to have money. Yeah. To to, you know, to Yeah.

Dave Jackson [01:24:34]:
There we go. Thank you, Randy. Donnie Wahlberg was a new Kids on the Block.

Jim Collison [01:24:37]:
Kids on the Block.

Dave Jackson [01:24:38]:
And Marky Wahlberg, of course, went on to be an actor, but he was the guy that was famous for his underwear. Right? He was good vibrations was Marky Wahlberg. Marky Mark and the funky bunch, if you remember. Man, this is dusting off some cobwebs. I was actually in the funky bunch. I'm way in the back, but I didn't make it into the video.

Jim Collison [01:24:59]:
We have descended into the depths of the nineties.

Dave Jackson [01:25:03]:
Yes. That's it. Hey, speaking of Justin Timberlake, if you're on Netflix, do not watch the movie reptile. I was like, oh, Justin Timberlake and Alicia Silverstone. I'm like, oh, okay, absolutely waste of an hour and whatever it was. It was and not that he was bad in it. It was just like, I don't care. And and then it ended weird.

Dave Jackson [01:25:24]:
And I was like, oh, that's an hour and a half. I can't get back. So

Jim Collison [01:25:27]:
Yeah. Well

Dave Jackson [01:25:27]:
there you go. Jim, what's coming up on HomeGadget Geeks?

Jim Collison [01:25:31]:
Yeah. My good buddy, Adam Hickman, joined me for for the week. We talked a little bit about fitness, but from a, how can you do it without spending a lot of money? Because, you know, gym memberships are expensive and all that equipment, and Adam's got some great ideas, and they don't necessarily cost a lot. And so we spend a little time talking about that. That episode I just released this morning, that's out now on home gadgetgeeks.com.

Dave Jackson [01:25:54]:
Have to check it out. I know there's an app I have called 7. And it's you're supposed to exercise for 7 minutes. And you're like, 7 minutes. And by 7 minutes, you're, like, I can't do anymore. Please don't make me do another. Oh. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [01:26:06]:
Exactly. Yeah. So that's on the school of podcasting. We are talking about and this sounds weird. What is a book that you've read more than once? And if you wanna answer that, I will be getting those answers in about 2 hours. But if you go to ask the or if you go to school of podcasting.com/question, and you might ask, Dave, why are we talking about books on a show about podcasting? A, I'm assuming my audience probably reads maybe the same types of books. It doesn't mean a podcast book, but any book that you read. But I'm also gonna learn, I think, a lot about my audience by this.

Dave Jackson [01:26:41]:
So, I mean, if I ever do a survey, I might wanna ask what other podcast do you listen to Because those might be networking opportunities. But, yeah, the the chat room has gone nuts with Backstreet Boys trivia here, but

Jim Collison [01:26:54]:
And coconuts.

Dave Jackson [01:26:55]:
And coconuts. Yes. Thank you to the chat room. We'll see you next week with another episode of Ask the Podcast Coach.